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Engine management light has started to flash at me

64K views 54 replies 14 participants last post by  Back again  
A flashing Engine Management light on the Diesels does indeed mean the DPF has reached 75% This usually means it has tried unsuccessfully to perform an active regeneration 3 times in a row.

Take it for a drive at around 65 MPH continuously for 20 - 25 minutes. Keep it in 5th gear so the revs are on or just over 2000. The light should go out before half an hour is up. If it does not go out, you MUST take it to the Dealership asap!Edited by: sharon75
 
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That's not at all normal. When you drove it tonight did you notice the AVG MPG was a lot lower, or that the INST MPG hovered around the 30 mark instead of full at 60+? Also did the turbo seem to have reduced boost?

I ask these questions because I'm wondering if it was actually doing a max-temp regen. If it has been driving fine up till now, and still drove fine for a whopping 90 miles with the light flashing, them it could be a dicky sensor causing the light to be on.

Given the mileage you did tonight, there are really only two outcomes. Either the max-temp regen should have easily cleared the filter and put the light out, or it cannot for some reason perform the process, and it would have gone into 'limp mode' (restricted revs, little or no boost pressure).

Because it seems neither of these happened, I would say its all pointing to a sensor fault 'tricking' the ECU and bringing the light on.
 
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You did everything right to allow it to clear itself. My bet is that its a sensor at fault. Be interested to know if anything happened on your drive this morning. And also what the Dealership say. If the light does not go out it will need sorting. It will have logged a fault code at the time and date it came on at, along with the mileage and average speed recorded etc.. So it should be fairly easy for them to find out whats going on.

As for a loan car, I wouldn't worry. If they need to keep yours overnight or longer, they should provide one for you until your car is back to normal again.
Edited by: sharon75
 
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Hi Anthony,

Did the garage guy not plug the diagnostics kit in and read what the fault code was pointing to? Like I say, when that Engine Managament flashes it will have logged a code. That should have been the first thing he checked.

Can you remember how long ago it was that the last normal active regen happened, and how many miles ago it was between that, and the light coming on the other day? Also did the last active regen complete - or did you switch the engine off while it was still saying 'Auto Stop Function Limited'?

As for doing a few hundered miles of motorway now, you are probably wasting your time and money. For if it's not actually doing the 'Max-Temp' active regen that we thought yesterday (75% and light flashing) but not doing anything, then the motorway speeds will just allow passive regeneration, and therefore will not need any intervention from the ECU to start an active cycle.

My suggestion as to take it back and insist they plug it in and check what fault code(s) it's bringing up, then take it from there.Edited by: sharon75
 
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Cor I'd be tempted to plug it in if I had a reader! Very tempting indeed!
 
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Hi guy's,

Anthony, if it's already covered about 250 miles, then don't waste time trying to 'bring on' an active regen with lots of motorway/harder driving. All it will do is Passivly clear the DPF slowly. Best way to get it to start up an active one is to not put it under a load now.

Let it get hot by driving normally, then keep the speed constant for a while. Doesn't have to be fast. About 40 ish in 4th will be enough. If the filter is ready it will see it's met the required papameters and should initiate an Active regen.

I still say it's a dicky sensor to blame for the continued flashing EM light. But like I said before, I would insist that the Dealership plugs in their diagnostic kit and reads the fault code(s) - That should have been what they did as soon as you took it to them.

If you do use your own kit tomorrow, I'd be interested to know what the results are. Providing the codes will mean something to you? I assume you have ways to translate the fault codes into actual plain English?

Anyway, I hope you get this sorted soon, as I can imagine what a worry and a headache this must be for you.
 
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Hi Gary,

It's like I said earlier in another thread, it seems to be just some Dealerships that are giving Kia a bad name, or giving owners doubts. Hopefully it's just the minority of Dealerships that are not doing things properly.
 
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Hi Anthony,

The guy who dismissed the sensor theory is wrong - well, I say wrong, he is only thinking about one aspect.

On the Diesels if the EM light is on steady, it means there is an emissions issue. So, a faulty sensor to do with the emissions side of things would cause a steady EM light.

The DPF has several sensors. Back pressure, Temperature, EGR etc etc... So as there are more DPF related sensors, the odds are it's one of them, hence a flashing light, no signs of any Active Regen starting up, and the car driving normally.

Did you plug your kit in today yet to see what fault codes are given?
 
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Hi Anthony,

As this issue is not something that could be considered your fault, any repairs - if required - should certainly be covered under warranty. Please see below for some details about the fault code P2002 that I have found:

The trouble code "P2002 diesel particulate filter efficiency below threshold" relates to an emissions control device. Installed on 2007 and later diesels, it eliminates the soot emitted from their exhaust. You will most likely see this DTC in a Dodge, Ford, Chevrolet, or GMC diesel pickup, but it can also be triggered on other diesel cars such as VW, Vauxhall, Audi, Lexus, etc.

The DPF - diesel particulate filter - is in the shape of a catalytic converter and positioned in the exhaust system. Inside is a matrix of compounds coating the passages such as cordierite, silicon carbide and metal fibres. It's 98% effective at eliminating soot.

The DPF creates a slight back pressure in operation. The vehicle's ECU -- computer -- has pressure -feedback sensors on the DPF to monitor its functionality. If for some reason - for two running cycles - it senses a discrepancy in the pressure limits, it will set the code P2002 indicating a malfunction.

Not to be to concerned, these devices have a regenerative capability to burn off the buildup of soot and return to full service. They last a long time.

Once this occurs the light will go out and the code will clear itself. This is why it's called a soft code -- it indicates a fault in "real time" and erases as the fault corrects itself. A hard code remains until the repair is completed and the code erased manually with a scanner.

All vehicles need a device to eliminate oxides of nitrogen expulsion into the atmosphere, which wouldn't be there otherwise, and its harmful to your health as well as the atmosphere. A catalytic converter solves emissions on gasoline engines. Diesels on the other hand, are more problematic.

Relying on the heat of super compressed fuel for spontaneous combustion, their cylinder head temperatures are very high creating a serious breeding ground for oxides of nitrogen. NOx is produced under extremely high temperatures. The engineers knew that they needed to use EGR -- exhaust gas recirculation - to dilute the incoming fuel charge to reduce the head temperatures and reduce the Nox. Problem was, the exhaust temperatures on a diesel are to high and would simply compound the problem.

They corrected this by using engine coolant to cool the engine oil and EGR pipe to reduce cylinder head temperatures below that necessary for the formation of Nox. This worked quite well. The DPF is the last line of defense against emissions by eliminating the soot.

NOTE: This P2002 DTC is the same as P2003, however the P2002 refers to bank 1, which is the side of the engine that contains cylinder #1.

The causes for this DTC may include:
""¢Too much slow speed operation will cause this code. It takes heat in the 500c to 600c range to burn off the soot in the DPF. Even with the ECUs efforts in engine management, it has difficulty in creating enough heat to clear the DPF at slow engine speeds

""¢An air leak forward of the DPF will change the sensor readings resulting in the code

""¢Defective ECU strategies or components will prevent proper regeneration

""¢Fuel with a large percentage of sulphur will clog the DPF quickly

""¢Some aftermarket accessories and performance modifications

""¢Dirty air cleaner element

""¢Damaged DPF

Hope this information is of some use to you. If your Dealership continues to fob you off, it may be worth printing the information I have provided in this post regarding the fault code and letting them read it.

Source: obd-codes.com
 
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You're very welcome Anthony.

I would still say it's either a faulty sensor, or a leak forward of the DPF thats causing a pressure imbalance, and therefore putting the EM light on.

By all means take it for the good long run and see if it clears this time, but if not, take it back to your Dealership and let it be their problem. Remember to ask for a free loan car while yours is being sorted
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Yeah you should not have to pay for their insurance. My Dealerahip told me that loan cars are free, and the insurance is on them - but if I wrapped up the loan car there is a ÂŁ500 excess that I would be liable for.
 
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Yeah Its not really worth it. Anyway, we should keep Anthony's thread on topic. So lets see how he gets on with his own car tomorrow.Edited by: sharon75
 
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Hi Gary,

Luckily I know quite a bit about the DPF systems used by Kia, so was able to provide Anthony with some useful information. But with regards to the warranty, ok, its taking them time to get to the bottom of this issue, but we need to wait and see what they are going to do about it.

If they lend him another Rio while his is off the road, and fix/replace all and any parts to do with this issue free of charge, then the peace of mind factor of the 7 year warranty remains intact.

I am fairly confident that they will sort this for him as a warranty job - but lets just wait and see what they say.
 
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Yeah, I'm not sure how this would fare a lot further down the line as, like you say, it is classed as a wear and tear item. However, if it's a malfunction with a sensor or something else connected to the DPF system and no fault of the driver, then I would have thought it would fall within the warranty guidelines.
 
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You guy's are too kind
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Seriously though, I hope this is all sorted soon Anthony. Did the EM light go out after the long drive this weekend? I'm guessing not?
 
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Hi Anthony,

Lets hope doing those miles clears it and puts the light out. It needs to try for an Active Regen (even if its failing to do the Max Temp one) in order to see if it will clear. Like you say though, if not, it has to go back, as you will have done all you can.

please keep us up to date with what happens.

Sharon.
 
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This happened with me and VW once before. Was told no loan cars available. Since that was their problem, I told them that as they had to provide me with a car, and that they could hire me a car for the week they needed mine off the road, and pay for the hire themselves.

I would insist they either source you a loan car or they can wait to work on yours until they can provide a loan car to you.
 
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Hi Anthony,

Glad to hear that the EM light finally went out. Certainly took way longer than it should. If its a sensor issue it could come on again at any time. If it goes into limp mode then there was a DPF blockage that has happened again (highly unlikely though with your motorway driving and trip lengths) Just drive it as you normally do and see what happens.

As for the loan car issue - Thats not at all good that they are saying you don't have an automatic right to one by default. I've not had to look into this before with Kia, so don't know what the 'fine print' says. I will look though, as they shoud have to provide you with a car if yours is off the road for warranty repairs.
 
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