[qbert]

My 03 Carens won't start in cold weather. If it's below freezing outside, it doesn't start. Battery's fine and the engine's turning over OK.

Went to my (reputable) local garage who said they could test the glow plugs, but it's an hour's job as the plugs are tucked behind the engine. The mechanic also said though that the glow plugs shouldn't really come intto play to start the engine until the weather gets much colder. As an example apparently Vauxhalls glow plugs only kick in at -18c!

Does that sound right? The difficulty is that I can only get the car to the garage once the weather's warmer, so of course it starts fine and the problem can't be diagnosed. Is it worth getting the glow plugs tested?

 

[Supacabby]

Mileage?

If above 50k then I would recommend getting the glowplugs checked. 1 way is to give them 2 or 3 lots of "heat" before turning the engine over, if it starts straight away this will point in that general direction. If it still fails then it may well be something else. Sorry it's vague but that's the best from behind a screen!

 

[qbert]

Thanks. It's done 52k miles so I'll get the glowplugs checked. Are there 4 altogether?

 

[Supacabby]

Yep, 1 for each cylinder. Make sure the garage tests them individually & not as a group, there may well be only 1 that is on its way out.

Have you tried to give them 3 lots of heat then cranking? If so what happens?

 

[mr rusty]

"The mechanic also said though that the glow plugs shouldn't really come
intto play to start the engine until the weather gets much colder. As
an example apparently Vauxhalls glow plugs only kick in at -18c!

Does that sound right?"

It doesn't sound right to me! Otherwise, why would the glowplug warning lamp come on? Have you checked the fuse and relay? Basic I know but that would stop the plugs operating. Normally a diesel will still start with only three working plugs (ask a Citroen Xantia owner...the fourth plug is so hard to get at that it just gets left....) it'll chug a bit but it will start. You can check yourself if power is getting to the plugs, you need to remove the intercooler (compress the hose clamps with a mole grip or welding clamp, then just pull any pipes off and unbolt it), then take the big plastic engine cover off and you can see the plugs along the back of the engine, switch on and check with a bulb or multimeter, you'll then know for definate if power is getting to them which is half way to solving your problem.

 

[dervman]

hi,the garage is 100% right the modern direct injection diesel engines do not need glow plugs to start,the kia engine is one of these(hence crd).The fuel is injected straight into the cylinder and not into a swirl chamber or ante chamber so there is nothing to heat up.All the glow plugs due is smooth out the running from cold,stop the lumpyness.
we have vehicles in when all 4 glowplugs or the control module isnt working and they will still start,rattle and bang a bit but still start,the bmw e60/61 is a common one.

Very hard to diagnose if the garage cant replicate the fault,if its not there then no one will be able to find it,on something of that age the diagnostics available are limited.You should be checking the operation of the low pressure fuel pump(in tank),the high pressure on cranking (needs to be 350 bar minimum),any signs of fuel leaks ,if fuel is leaking then air will be entering the system,sane way you have to purge the system when you change the fuel filter and also coolant sensors and crank sensors need to be scoped and checked.

most of the faults listed on new modern common rail diesels can be very expensive ,due to the cost of the parts,hope this helps

john

 

[MININUT]

Wow, first Ive heard of heater plugs been controlled by by an outside temperature sensor?The heater plugs/glow plugs are activated when the ignition is turned on!
Absolutely right re the crdi, but, still the heater plugs are activated. Only difference with this type of fuel injection is that you do not need to wait till' the light goes out. But, during cold weather it helps to start if you delay by few seconds.
There are many causes for the engine failing to start on a cold morning. If your battery is older than 2 yrs it could be down a bit. A diesel engine needs to spin fast enough to build up enough compression. Cold weather contracts metal, piston/piston rings contract thus failing to build compression.
Where and when did you fill your fuel tank? did the fuel station stock the winter grade fuel?
One could go on and on speculating. This is a process of elimination which is difficult to manage on line. Take it to a reputable mechanic

 

[Kia Customer Service]

<DIV =Section1>
Hi qbert, <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

We're sorry to hear you're having a problem starting your car from cold.

dervman has made a very good point ""“ it'll be hard for a mechanic to diagnose a problem if symptoms aren't there.

A suggestion may be to leave your Carens with a dealer overnight. They'll then be able to test your car from cold first thing in a morning.

MININUT is also correct in telling you that there could be any number of reasons why you're having this problem. It would definitely be best to have your car inspected by a Kia technician as soon as possible.

Please give us a call if you need any help with this.

Kia Customer Service
0845 6017521
Visit www.kia.co.uk
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<BR style="PAGE-BREAK-BEFORE: auto; mso-break-: section-break" clear=all>

 

[Supacabby]

The following text is taken from the worldwide forum, interesting end to a similar problem!

Just to let you know that my car is now up and running !<br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; : rgb239, 239, 239; ">In the end i got leak with the 4 injectors.<br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; : rgb239, 239, 239; "><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; : rgb239, 239, 239; ">I highly recommend the diesel specialist that repaired the 4 injectors :<br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; : rgb239, 239, 239; ">AD Diesel(i hope promotion is authorized on this forum because they really deserve it).<br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; : rgb239, 239, 239; ">They check an injector for 25 ‚¬ and repair them for 125 ‚¬ extra (VAT not included).
[(This company is in Belgium]<br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; : rgb239, 239, 239; "><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; : rgb239, 239, 239; ">Just to be complete, here is the explanation why the car didn't start.<br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; : rgb239, 239, 239; ">To start, a diesel engine need a minimum pressure in the fuel rail. This high pressure is delivered by a high pressure pump driven directly by the motor (through the camshaft ?). During cranking this pressure is minimal because the motor "runs" at low speed (~400rpm). If you have any leak in the injector, the pressure will drop and will not be sufficient for the injected diesel to ignite.<br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; : rgb239, 239, 239; ">Having 4 injectors leaking, i definitaly had not enough pressure.<br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; : rgb239, 239, 239; ">Once the engine is started, the rpm increase (~800rpm at idle) and the pressure raise. The pressure remains enough even with leaks for the diesel to ignite.<br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; : rgb239, 239, 239; "><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; : rgb239, 239, 239; ">So there's another option for you to consider!

PS: Can I have an idea who is posting as Kia UK please? Are you a customer service or a technical service official spokesperson?

 

[qbert]

Thanks for all the help everyone. The garage diagnosed the glowplugs and found 3 of them weren't working; the fitting for the 4th had corroded so it couldn't be removed. I had the 3 replaced and the car was fine for a couple of days.

Then last week - wouldn't start again! The garage towed it away and found a big leak from the fuel pump. I can see the diesel on the road outside my house. It's costing me £500 to get a new pump so I'm not ecstatic but hopefully that'll be the end of it.

 

[Kia Customer Service]

Hi Supacabby,


We are posting from our Kia Customer Service Centre in the UK. Please let me know if you need any further information.

Kia Customer Service <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

0845 6017521

Visit www.kia.co.uk
Join In www.facebook.com/kiamotorsuk
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Call centre opening hours:
Monday to Wednesday: 8.30am - 6pm
Thursday: 9.30am - 6pm
Friday: 8.30am - 6pm
Saturday: 9am - 1pm
Sunday: Closed

 

[Supacabby]

Thanks for the clarification, just making sure that the info is customer service & not technical related.