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Discussion Starter #1
If anyone else has encountered the following symptoms could they ensure they report it to Kia Customer Services directly at [email protected] as the dealers will not usually pass on information to Kia on anything they cannot recreate themselves.


It would help if you could also reply to this thread with , Model, Petrol or Diesel, AWD or not, DCT or Manual. Also interested if other models are affected.


My example is Sportage 1.6 GT-Line AWD, DCT, 20k miles


Symptoms.

- The problem is a momentary hesitation with no response to the throttle that lasts from 1 to 3 secs when pulling out at junctions, roundabouts or traffic lights

- The car DOES start to move forward but then limps along at 5-10 mph (hence the car is in gear) but with no further response to throttle (ie akin to a limp mode)

- After 1 - 3 seconds the car will rev back into life with a "thud" and throttle behaves normally thereafter

- The problem is very intermittent (few times per month) and I cannot recreate it on demand

- There is no warning its going to happen

- There are no fault codes recorded and no dashboard lights illuminated

- The engine has warmed up

- The car has typically been idling for a short while prior to the incident such as occurs when you are waiting for your turn at roundabout / junction / lights

- Kia are aware of the issue but have no fix and currently seem to try to suggest that its driving style / a "characteristic", hence they are not doing anything further to investigate the issue


This is NOT the problem that others describe of the DCT gearbox behaviour where the revs rise and the clutch appears to slip making starts from rest slow & ponderous, particularly up steep inclines or with a heavy load. I do believe this is just a feature of the DCT box that you have to get along with.

Many techs / dealers I have spoken with have tried to combine these two issues and say its driving style / a "characteristic" but the throttle hesitation appears unconnected with this other DCT behaviour.

If you report this issue to a dealer be prepared for the response to be " haven't heard of this / you are the first to report it / not a known issue". This is despite UK Kia Customer service being made aware there does not appear to be any tech bulletins or notes to dealers covering this issue.


Another DCT "characteristic" that is unconnected to the throttle hesitation issue is the difficulty many report of trying to maintain smooth progress in a traffic queue, particularly up an incline. Depending on the speed of the crawling traffic it can be very hard to maintain smooth progress with the car often coming on and off throttle in a jerky manner. I am now in the habit of leaving a gap, moving fwd, stopping, leave a gap & repeat to overcome this. (Much to the annoyance of those behind!). However, this is not the same "dead throttle" feeling you get with the issue that I am reporting above.


Would also be interested if anyone else has had this issue and had it resolved.
 

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There are many sensors on the car and the ECU will monitor all of these and report any unexpected readings, flagging an error code or codes. You report that there are no errors logged, so the ECU believes that all is well and the engine/gearbox is responding as intended.


You are obviously acquainted with the characteristic DCT behaviour but AFAIK this only happens when the vehicle has not come completely to a stop and tries to pick up in 2nd gear. If you are sure that this is happening with the car from stationary in 1st (even the tiniest of forward movement will keep it in 2nd) then you are experiencing something else, and it is a puzzle because of the absence of error logs.


I have been able to induce something a little similar when moving off from a stop. It is rare and I think it happens when applying some accelerator, and as the car starts to pick up, applying more accelerator, but the lag is nothing like 3 seconds and I doubt that it is even as much as 1.


It might be worth having a play somewhere quiet and perhaps with a rear seat passenger videoing the dash. Try various combinations of road speed, constant accelerator pressure, and varied accelerator pressure.


Speculation: (first some terminology to avoid confusion: Accelerator is the pedal under your right foot. Throttle is the electronically controlled valve which controls air in the inlet manifold and determines how much power the engine produces. In simpler cars the two move together in a fixed relationship. In drive by wire cars such as ours the throttle is under the complete control of the ECU and only indirectly related to the accelerator position)


As the car moves off at some point it will elect to change into 2nd. This will happen ad quite low speed if using light accelerator pressure (about 5 or 6 mph IMO). To shift up the ECU will back off the throttle before switching clutches. If at this point (or close to it) more accelerator input is applied the car could be deciding now to retain 1st, but the throttle is backed off and will take time to open again, hence the delay. This would not take anything like 3 seconds. To recite "Only a fool breaks the two second rule" at normal conversational speed takes about two seconds. Time seems to travel very slowly when you have pulled out into a junction and are waiting for the car to pick up with a artic bearing down on you.


Just some thoughts -


I agree with your comments around dribbling along in very slow traffic and have similar experiences. I do pretty much what you have described. Not at all interested in the chap behind - you will be behind the car in front no matter how close to it you drive and it makes zero difference to your journey time provided that you do anticipate the traffic freeing up and are not a long way back when it does. He behind gets upset? SEP.
 

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I have been having the same issue have had to take my Sportage GT Line 1.6 GDI turbo (registered Nov 2018) into the dealer have not had a diagnosis yet.

After pulling away from a standing start the engine revs at approx 1,200 RPM and does not respond to the throttle

I managed to crawl into a lay-by and found that the engine speed remained constant at 1,200 even if I took my foot off the throttle (idle speed is usually approx 800 RPM).

If I press the engine stop button and then restart the car behaves normally - until the next time.

This could cause an accident if happened at a busy road junction or during a motorway journey.

Does anyone else have experience of this?
 

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I'm still getting jerking whilst creeping in traffic and clutch shudder when changing gear into 4th. I wondered if it was power loss when I reapply the throttle but was unable to reproduce it on a dealer visit when it only happens about once a day.
 

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Add me to the list of OP's symptoms.

1.6T GDI AWD DCT GTLS. 68 Reg - last of stock before facelift.
Done 3,212 miles.
7 months old.
Sat at red lights at classic 4-way crossroads junction, indicator on to turn left.
Lights go green, make the turn, starting to unwind steering and press the accelerator pedal a little more.
Car acts as if I've taken my foot off the pedal completely.
2 seconds, comes back to life
Car was not warmed up. Needle not moved on water temp. Quiet roads, gentle driving
Have made the same turn countless times at the same time of the day with the same conditions as part of childminder run
No lights on dashboard, no other symptoms.

My immediate suspicion would be throttle position sensor suddenly gives no/false reading.

About 1 mile later the low fuel warning came on (rightly) so wonder if there is an association with low fuel but if so, must be coincidental as any deliberation would be BS.

Am I still meant to be emailing that [email protected] email address or is that long gone?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Perhaps some good news for those suffering this particular problem,

There is a recent TCM update for the software logic that came out on Jan 9th 2019 entitled "Acceleration Logic Improvement".

The fix has been applied to my car (2016 GT-Line DCT AWD) and I have not encountered the serious hesitation / lack of throttle response since having this applied.

The TSB no. is KFE18-50-E111-QLE
perhaps worth calling in to your local KIA garage to get advice on whether this fix applies to your car.


Clockwork; re your clutch judder - i recognize those symptoms and many others have reported the same issue particularly when creeping in traffic or pulling away uphill. Unfortunately this does seem to be a "characteristic" and sadly the TSB fix above doesn't appear to alter that behaviour to any great degree - it may have improved it a little but not eliminated it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I don't have the full TS bulletin, only the reference # above, but the Dealer shared a screen print which describes something along the lines of "Insufficient Acceleration after gear shift at low speed affecting some DCT models".
 

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Definitely sounds like it; happening straight after the change from 1st to 2nd definitely fits with my scenario
 

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Thanks Eddie-x: I have started to change from 3rd to 5th to bypass the issue. I was wondering if it was the gear ratio as the problem is not happening when go to 5th.
I will look into the TSB with the dealer ASAP.
 

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Hi, i am in Ireland and i have a 2019 1.6 K3 Diesel manual (new model) which has the same issue. It is currently in Kia garage for a week, 2nd time back with this issue and they say they cannot find fault and no error codes. Do you know if this (TCM update for the software logic that came out on Jan 9th 2019 entitled "Acceleration Logic Improvement" ) will apply to manuals too? Garage said they updated the software 1st time it was in 6 weeks ago but no change!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Idamo, the TCM update I quoted was definitely the one for DCT (auto) transmission cars. There may be a manual version in the works but the dealers don't tend to find out until the patch is released.

I would recommend calling Kia Customer Service directly and ensure they are aware that you have a very similar fault but on a manual version.

The reason I say this is the dealers don't tend to pass on information on any fault they cannot replicate and as I found when reporting my fault, the individual garages all claim "never heard of the fault" / "you are the first to report it" / "cant recreate it" and consequently they don't file a report centrally with KIA. As a result KIA can be genuinely unaware of how widespread a particular issue is.

The patch for my car came out about 3-4 months after I detailed the issue to KIA Customer Service and at the time they said they were unaware of a fault.
Now I am certain they wouldn't work on a patch just for 1 customer so others must have complained to KIA Customer Service but I have no idea how many people did nor when they would have reported it.
For all I know the patch may have already been in the works by the time I complained.

Anyway, long way of saying; if a dealer cannot locate or recreate the issue make sure you call KIA Customer Service and make them aware of your fault - don't rely on a Dealer to file a report.

Hope you get a resolution.
 

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Hi Eddie, thanks for the reply and advice. I will definitely get in to Kia, as you say garage are saying the never heard of a case like this and we’re kidding of hinting it mine and my wife’s driving style! Thanks again and I’ll post an update when resolved
 

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Yes I have the Gt line which we received in Feb 19 and have suffered this horrible judder between gear change etc, we have gone on road test which a technician who admitted it was a problem with the car and not the driver so 2 weeks on now my car is still in the garage and they want to give it back as they say its not dangerous to drive and they can't find out what the issue is and awaiting kia technical to come back to them.

They are starting to get quite annoyed with me on email as I refuse to have the car back as its a mobility car and causes me massive pain when it judders hard.

Surely if they speak to another kia dealership etc someone must have had this issue resolved as its all driving me nuts as the garage give me all manner of excuses now. Has anyone been able to remidie this yet? Thanks
 

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Goof morning, I have the same issue with my 2019 February 19 Gt line sportage with the same issue and this is the current last email they've sent which mentions a GPF regeneration which I'm sure is for a diesel but my car is a petrol, they just keep sending me all kind of crap and surely kia Hq would have heard of this issue and be able to advise?? I will email them today if you think its the right thing to do?
Email from Dealership ;

The technician has just been out and has experienced the fault but unfortunately at this present time we are awaiting a fix from Kia Korea. You are able to collect the car but the fault will be there as we are unable to carry out any rectification work.’ Unfortunately this is still the case we have carried out a GPF forced regeneration and it has slightly improved the conditions, however until the fix is available from Kia here is nothing we can do.

......

Thanks simon
 

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Thanks for this. I have a 2019 Sportage 1.6 DCT Auto GT Line with less than 200 miles on the clock and purchased last month. This morning on my way to work as I tried to accelerate past a slow car, the engine spluttered and I lost all acceleration. The engine continued to hesitate for the rest of the journey. The car goes back this week. I'll let you know what they say.
 

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My old 2.0 GT Line Auto used to do the same, I have found with the new one 1.6 GT Line 48 Volt that it doesn't get the same problem as the battery kicks in.
 

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Thanks for this. I have a 2019 Sportage 1.6 DCT Auto GT Line with less than 200 miles on the clock and purchased last month. This morning on my way to work as I tried to accelerate past a slow car, the engine spluttered and I lost all acceleration. The engine continued to hesitate for the rest of the journey. The car goes back this week. I'll let you know what they say.
Hi ianmack0,
My Sportage did not splutter, the issue was the hesitation pulling off at a junction or on to a round about leaving me stranded in the middle of the road for about 5 seconds but would feel like a hell of a lot longer! After a lot of denial from the garage that there was an issue , the car being in garage several times and up to 7 weeks at a time, a useless customer service in Kia Ireland they replaced 4 injectors to see if that makes a difference but they couldn’t guarantee it would make a difference as “Kia have not had an issue with injectors in any other Sportages” (they kept putting down to mine and my wife’s driving) The injectors we’re replaced in November and so far so good, the Hesitation is gone!! I hope you get sorted alot quicker than I did.
 
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