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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,
have just bought a 2007 XT which judders and feels like its trying to lock up one of the rear wheels when the throttle is lifted off fully. I have removed the tccs fuse which cured the problem so am thinking of fitting the locker circuit. Is what i want to know is will i still have the same problem when i have 4 wheel drive selected or does it just lock it into a 50/50 split. Any help greatly appreciated and any detailed diagrams welcome so i can build one.
 

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When in 4x4 you will still have same problem. Have you the best tyres on the rears? Have you changed the TOD fluid with either genuine Kia fluid or added a friction modifier to standard auto fluid. Either of these may cure your problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
When in 4x4 you will still have same problem. Have you the best tyres on the rears? Have you changed the TOD fluid with either genuine Kia fluid or added a friction modifier to standard auto fluid. Either of these may cure your problem.
Thanks for replying Birdman, The tyres on the rear are not a matching pair but the ones on the front are. The tyres on the rear have a larger circumference admittedly measured off the vehicle but are both about the same and approx 6 mm more than the fronts. I havnt touched the fluid but we do have service history up to 40,000 and the car has only done 65,000 so i would expect it to be the original. I have found a switch under the dash which looks like it might be a locker, a quick drive with it switched over doesnt seem to show the fault but a longer drive is in order to confirm it. The car is still under warranty but the garage is over 300m away so trying to identify the fault for them rather than take it back.
 

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if the car has been serviced in an independent garage they will most likely have used autodata for their info, auto data gives the wrong info for the transfer box oil, kia changed the spec of the oil some time after introduction due to problems they were having. the transfer box must have friction modifier added to the oil or buy kia transfer box oil that has it in already. without this you get the clutch plates sticking together, and as previously said a full matching set of tyres is important. with the best ones always on the rear, or fit the mod kit and solve all of the above issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Foster, how often is the oil changed in the transfer box, i was expecting it to be a bit like a gearbox. Is trhe friction modifier a kia only oil or do halfrauds do one. Is there a mod kit that will lock it into 4wd as my wife will be using it to tow a horsebox on wet grass etc so 4wd needed. i presume the thumping and juddering is the box shifting from 2wd to 4wd and back. I have looked at the german locker site but dont understand fully the explanations. I am happy to build one myself or modify the one fitted if I can use 4wd with no judder or jump.
 

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The juddering is caused by the transfer box clutch locked solid. This happens because Sorento does not have a center diff as makes like Landrover ect, which compensates for difference in wear between front and rear tyres. If you cannot buy a friction modifier locally you will find them on EBay or Amazon.
 

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trsbetter.

Some explanation which I hope will enlighten you.

You vehicle has no centre diff, so it cannot be used in 4WD on a good surface. Any imbalance in tyre wear or the slightest of cornering will cause all four wheels to want to turn at different speeds but the 4WD will not allow this, so the wheels skip and hop (if you are lucky). If you are unlucky something in the transmission will break. 4WD should only be used on slippery surfaces, which will allow the wheels to turn at their own speed because they can slip.

Also, when 4WD seected there is 50/50 split front/rear regardless of how it is selected. As already mentioned by BIRDMAN, there is no centre diff to allow any other front/rear split.
 

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BIRDMAN

Help me to understand something: The OP states that removing the TCCS fuse makes the symptoms go away. Would this be the case if the transfer box clutch was locked solid?
 

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Removing the fuse taking power off the coil allows the unit slip enough to stop juddering but with the Correct Kia fluid or adding a friction modifier allows it to slip smoothly to compensate for no central diff. If the unit was 100% seized then removing fuse would not help. Therefore OP is in a position where unit could still be saved with the correct fluid.
 

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Thank you BIRDMAN. It seems that the OP has already got the TOD unlocker mod fitted so this might be a long standing problem for that car.

OP - get the correct fluid in there and in the meantime leave the switch in 2WD.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the replies guys. Excuse my ignorance but just to get it straight. In auto, the car is in 2wd unless it sees a wheel slipping or as likely in my case too large a difference in wheel diameters front to back. At this point it drops into 4wd until speed of front and back rotation the same, it then goes back to 4wd. Friction modifier will allow a bit more tolerance regarding the missmatch. Nice idea in theory..... Can it be swappeed with an XE box or is a totally different set up.
 

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If the XE box is fitted it also has a different control box and wiring .harness.The Sorrento hit the British market 2003 and the TOD boxes started to show problems. Kia then brought out the fluid to overcome this. Cars that were serviced by independent workshops had no knowledge of this technical bulletin which was only available to main dealers.. But with family members working for dealerships and also operating fleet rentals of them I had the info to make my decision and purchase an XE new. This I owned for 10+ years and drive train was totally faultless.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks Birdman, just a thought. Is my understanding of the system correct and that i need to get 2 new rear tyres of the same make as the fronts and change the box oil.
 

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Yes that would be my first move, and you understand the system The TOD box has a sensor on front and rear output shafts whereas the XE box only has a sensor for the speedo on the rear output. Good luck hope you get it solved.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yes that would be my first move, and you understand the system The TOD box has a sensor on front and rear output shafts whereas the XE box only has a sensor for the speedo on the rear output. Good luck hope you get it solved.
Thanks very much for your help and patience. I will let you know how I get on.
 

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Birdman,

I hope you can help me with some information that I don't seem to be able to find out elsewhere.

I bought a 2006 Sorento XT diesel automatic (138hp model) the other day. When I bought it I explained to the dealer (a general secondhand car dealer) that I was buying the Sorento specifically for its 4wd ability, as I have to drive around on a very muddy field to get to my microlight aircraft, which is parked in a hangar on a muddy airfield.

The dealer made affirmative noises (as they do!) and the car drove very smoothly, although the fan was noisy. I checked the viscous fan coupling and realised it had seized, but I'd read about these things seizing up on this forum before going to see the car, so knew I could get a working one for less than £20 off Ebay.

Unfortunately for me, it was very wet when I went to see and drive the car, so I didn't get underneath it to check the propshafts. However, today the weather was dry, so I went out to the car parked on my front-drive, and got underneath it to check the propshafts. It therefore came as a bit of a shock to discover that there was no front propshaft.

I immediately phoned the dealer and told him about the situation, and he was mystified as to why anyone would remove the propshaft. I think he was as shocked as me when I told him about it. Anyway, he agreed to reimburse me the cost of a new shaft. I ordered one off Ebay for £180, and it will be arriving Tues, 23rd. However, I've now discovered that there were two different front propshafts used on the mk1 Sorento. It seems that the shaft required could either have a UJ at one end and a CVJ at the other, in which case the CV joint end will have 6 bolts and the UJ end 4 bolts. Or it could have UJ's at both ends in which case it would have 4 bolts at each end.

From the image on Ebay it looks as though the propshaft I've ordered has the CV joint at one end and the UJ at the other. I read through the list of cars the shaft was compatible with and my car was listed as being one of them, so I can only assume that it was standard practice to fit a CVJ and UJ type shaft on the 2006, 138 hp, diesel automatic model.

Either way, it will need bolts, as there are none on the flanges at either end. So do you happen to know the specification of the bolts and nuts required for the 6 bolt version and the 4 bolt version, i.e. length, diameter, thread, etc?

Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
 

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This question has been asked on the forum a few times...the quick solution to prevent problems with the TOD was to remove the front shaft, thus regardless of problems in the transfer case, the vehicle then drives normally in rear wheel drive.....your best solution would be to return the vehicle to the dealer as 'not fit for purpose' since the possible cost to repair the 4wd could be high if you are unable to do it yourself .....the TOD transfer case which is made by 'Borg Warner' is a sophisticated piece of equipment and allows automatic engagement of 4wd WITHOUT driver imput....as said above, it suffers from 'operator error' in that being very sensitive to uneven tyre wear....if you do have mechanical ability, and are able to do the work yourself, then removing the transfer case, stripping it and replacing parts is not that difficult...let us know how you get on.
 

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as previously mentioned , you will be opening up a can or worms trying to get the transfer box working correctly. you might be lucky and find that it was originally incorrectly diagnosed due to incorrect tyres fitted and they took the easy option of removing the prop instead of correctly diagnosing it. with worn tyres on the rear the tod cuts in causing a banging noise as it cuts in. with these cars you have to assume the tod transfer box is going to need an overhaul until you can prove other wise. and yes they are that bad. the mod kit really does solve all your problems with these transfer boxes. you can buy a ready made kit or make one your self if you are so inclined,
 

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fOster,

When you say there is a mod kit, what do you mean exactly? Is there something that goes into, or attaches to the TOD box? Or do you mean the switch arrangement, where you bypass the TOD fuse (13) and instead have a fused switch that allows you to turn the TOD function off?

For my 2006 diesel automatic it will be a fairly simple fix to fit the switch (complete with in-line fuse on the live side) and I'll fit one when I have the time, but I bought the car for the 4WD ability, and I've been rather disappointed to find that it has had the front prop shaft removed. I've bought a new prop shaft, and await the correct bolts, washers, spacers, etc, that I've ordered from Kia. As soon as they arrive I'll be under the car reconnecting the drive to the front wheels. Then I'll be able to compare the drive as it currently is (quiet and smooth) with the drive once the prop shaft is in place and is being driven by the front axle.

I am hoping that there will be little or no difference in the way the car drives with the front prop shaft in place, and with the switch in place I'll be able to control when the car goes into 4WD and when it is 2WD. As you can see from my request to Birdman, I wanted to find out a little more about the propshaft and its fitment, including bolt, washer, and spacer sizes. However, no-one seems to know what they are, so I've had to go to the nearest KIA dealers and order the parts specially for the car. They don't keep them in stock and have had to order them from KIA, so this means I won't be able to fit the shaft till New Year's Eve at the earliest, which is a shame, as the prop shaft arrived this morning.

Anyway, it looks like I won't be able to play car mechanics over the next few days, so I'll relax and worry about it all after the weekend.

So Happy Christmas to all on the forum, and let's hope next year is a little less hectic than this one's been! :)
 
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