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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

bought car a few days ago and just had a couple of questions.

1. MPG - I’ve been driving around town and currently even with a light foot the mpg I’m getting is around 21mpg. Is that about right or should it be higher?

2.DCT - I read a lot about this before buying and saw a lot of posts and articles from people that had different issues but my car feels nice and smooth and really enjoying the DCT. Does anyone know what reliability of the gearbox/clutches are on these type of boxes? Are they likely to fail or wear sooner than a traditional 1 clutch manual etc? Or is it quite normal to have 65k miles etc and DCT still working fine?
 

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That mpg looks a little low but then it’s scorching hot right now (so the AC compressor is working hard) and short journeys around town are always terrible for mpg. Take it out for a decent run to get the motor warmed right up, and you should see 35 or so. One thing I’ve found is to coast where you can, it doesn’t have as much engine braking as a manual, so you can cruise along with a lighter foot and not lose speed. That makes a surprising difference to average mpg and almost no difference to speed.

DCT should be fine, it’s covered under the same warranty as the rest of the car. The biggest thing with them is to keep the brake pressed when you want to stay still - don’t ride the clutch by gently pressing the throttle to stop it rolling back on a hill! Just drive it sensibly and it should last many tens of thousands of miles.
 

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Hi all,

bought car a few days ago and just had a couple of questions.

1. MPG - I’ve been driving around town and currently even with a light foot the mpg I’m getting is around 21mpg. Is that about right or should it be higher?

Only way to check actual mpg is using the tank brim to brim method. constant town driving indicated 21mpg sound reasonable. The largest influencer on mpg is the driver. :LOL:

2.DCT - I read a lot about this before buying and saw a lot of posts and articles from people that had different issues but my car feels nice and smooth and really enjoying the DCT. Does anyone know what reliability of the gearbox/clutches are on these type of boxes? Are they likely to fail or wear sooner than a traditional 1 clutch manual etc? Or is it quite normal to have 65k miles etc and DCT still working fine?

Again the driver & where the vehicle is used has the most influence on clutch life, manual or DCT gearbox. we have covered 23k miles with no problems, the salesman said that the DCT clutch would be covered under the Kia warranty when we purchased our sportage. ;) We have yet to test his words of wisdom!
 

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Last few tankfuls I have had in the heat with plenty of local-ish driving I have returned about 22-26mpg so that doesn't sound too terrible.
They will return low>mid 30's on a run.

The main "issue" with the DCT is if you have it in manual mode & let the revs drop too low then try to accelerate - you can throw the car into a fault which causes juddering & starts the EML flashing.

Other than that, so far, no issues but like any Dual Clutch gearbox, if/when they do go wrong (& in the fullness of time they will), they will be expensive to repair.
 

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1. MPG - I’m getting around 21mpg.
2.DCT - I read a lot about this
I’m not aware of which car you drove previously, ‘Daveyboy123’, but 21 mpg in urban conditions is a little on the low side as ‘mr_mike’ and ‘vengablue’ have indicated. Should your previous car have been diesel, then you are not alone in being shocked at the fuel consumption of petrol-engined SUVs.

Some petrol adopters do try to ’talk up’ their petrol-engined acquisition, possibly to demonstrate how savvy they want you to believe they are. Regardless, while it is possible to drive a petrol-engined vehicle economically (with some care and consideration), a diesel equivalent returns good fuel economy with ease due to the different power and torque curve witnessed in dynamometer tests.

Nevertheless, you should be able to improve upon the figure you mention by a fair margin, particularly if your typical driving profile includes some open road motoring. It is never a good idea to pay much attention, however, to claims you might read in any car forum about the figures Joe Bloggs achieves with his identical model. There is only one way to measure the cost of the fuel your car costs you and that is to employ a brim-to-brim refuelling regime and perform the simple arithmetic calculations to work out the mpg in conjunction with the amount of Sterling deducted from your credit card or current account.

It really is pointless for people to throw in qualifications such as ‘but on a run’ or ‘at a steady 60 mph’, as we all understand how these things work - we can cycle down a steep hill on a bike with much less effort than cycling uphill - all that concerns us, because mpg changes constantly during our driving time, should be the average over a tank of fuel as that relates directly to the pounds and pence we pay at the pump. Getting 99 mpg driving down the side of a mountain is not reflected in calculating average mpg unless you balance it with the 9 mpg driving up that mountain road.

As for DCT, as far as I have been able to determine (and I have looked), Hyundai/KIA models so equipped seem to have fared better than the earlier Ford and VAG versions in terms of reliability. As so often intimated in these pages, DCT requires a different attitude compared to driving a manual car or indeed a fluid-drive traditional auto. It really is important to fully understand what is happening inside the gearbox in response to driver actions and once learned, if we adapt to the gearbox and its differences from other types, we can enjoy the smooth drive with its near-seamless gearchanges and fuel consumption close to that achieved on a manual version.

There is much material on the internet in respect of DCT and I’m sure you have probably read most of it. Just in case you have overlooked it, John Cadogan, the Aussie motoring pundit, is always worth a read on any subject. I think the most important difference to remember in driving a DCT as opposed to a fluid-drive traditional auto is that in the latter, it is possible to creep in stop-start traffic by adding or removing brake pressure, or hold the car on a hill just by a touch of throttle as the torque convertor helps, whereas in DCT, that can only be achieved though wearing the friction material of a clutch.

Driven with some empathy for the mechanics of the system, there is no reason why a DCT box of tricks should not last for many years. As I have said many times in these pages, I would have another DCT without question.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thank you for all your replies so far. Ok so driving home from work this eve I decided to turn off climate control and just open windows. Instead of 21 mpg average over journey I got 26mpg. So would assume climate control has a big impact in the hotter weather.

DCT- yes I’ve read a lot about them before I got one. I have always driven manual cars so I’ve not come from a torque conversion auto box.
So far I love it. Fast and smooth gear changes every time. No hesitation and no issues what so ever.

yes I understand about the creeping in slow traffic and that’s a no go.
how about though when parking up whether it be reverse or forward parking. So when I park I go slow into space, usually using no accelarator, just taking foot off accelartor pedal and allowing car to move slowly. Is that ok to do as can’t see any other way of parking in so e without doing that as need to make slow small adjustments when parking?
Ah that’s good to hear, I wondered about the warranty as read some articles on sites to suggest it’s not covered as would be classed as wear and tear. So are you saying that a DCT system including the clutches themselves are covered for 7 years if anything were to go wrong?
 

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I decided to turn off climate control and just open windows. Instead of 21 mpg average over journey I got 26mpg.

when I park I go slow into space, usually using no accelarator, just taking foot off accelartor pedal and allowing car to move slowly. Is that ok to do as can’t see any other way of parking in so e without doing that as need to make slow small adjustments when parking?
You will only do that once or twice a day and the clutches can stand that but to always treat the clutches to slippage every time you hit stop-start traffic or to hold the vehicle on an up-hill using throttle with the clutch only partially engaged really isn’t the best way to treat DCT.

Received wisdom is that it is false economy to not use A/C when fitted. The difference you have noted is not simply attributable to switching off A/C, as opening windows also has a detrimental effect on mpg. It is more likely that your particular drive or (more likely) your application of throttle and brakes allied to road/traffic conditions all conspired to provide slightly better mpg than your last drive. The cost of overhauling an aircon system or replacing the compressor, etc, is probably much more than the savings you may achieve by switching off the facility and causing the seals to dry out.

I don’t know what information you have on the warranty of the DCT but without looking it up, I can tell you it is one of the shortest periods of guarantee on the whole car - friction clutches can be abused by ignorance or wilful neglect! A traditional epicyclic gearbox is much more forgiving in those situations on account of the fluid coupling but there is a fuel penalty, although to be fair, not nearly as punitive as a couple of decades ago - progress there too!

Otherwise, I hope you continue to enjoy the DCT and you will so long as you don’t attempt to emulate the driving techniques which served you best, driving a manually-geared car. Pedal-to-the-metal acceleration is not the way with DCT, particularly in the diesel cars. Swift progress, though, is still achieved with the right technique.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok that’s good so normal parking and slipping of clutch which is normal would be fine in those conditions.

I wouldn’t creep in traffic anyway. Didn’t do that in a manual so wouldn’t do that now. Guess a lot of people that have come from a full automatic may do so as I believe you can do that with that type of transmission.

in regards to turning off AC, I only turned it off on way home so I’m sure the seals won’t dry up. I’ve heard that you should run system at least once a month as that will ensure seals etc stay as they should and not dry out.
I’m sure I read somewhere that up to about 30 or 40mph then it’s more economical to have a window open when driving as opposed to AC but anything over than that then AC works out more economical due to added drag from windows being open etc.

regarding the warranty.I’m going by what others have said on this post. They said they were told that the DCT is covered by the Kia warranty. So is that not true then?

how do you mean techniques of a manual car? I have just been leaving in auto mode and letting it change gear when it feels it is right too.
assume It’s also fine to put it into sport mode? Found that really does accelerate when in that mode due to the higher revs it would change gear at. Only thing I don’t like with that mode is that when you are say at 40 and staying at that speed, it still seems to stay in 4th gear and reving at over 2k revs instead of changing up.
 

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Thank you for all your replies so far. Ok so driving home from work this eve I decided to turn off climate control and just open windows. Instead of 21 mpg average over journey I got 26mpg. So would assume climate control has a big impact in the hotter weather.
Modern aircon doesn't account for a 20% difference in MPG.
And any tiny saving by switching off the aircon would be counteracted by ruining the aerodynamics by opening the windows.
There must have been 'something' else in that journey that accounted for the improvement, it would need a proper controlled test.
Your climate control/aircon should be on 24/7, there's never any reason to switch it off, it's designed for it and should be used this way.
Just because the aircon button is lit doesn't mean it's actually 'working' at that point, it will look after itself.
(unless it decides to lose all its gas like ours has....but that's another story...)
 

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I’ve a different car ,less streamline but same/similar engine and DCT and when I have been on longish runs with the air on have achieved high 40,s and over 50 on a couple of long runs which to be honest is the only time I check the mpg and I think driving in a colder temperature uses more fuel than having the air on on in the hot weather,in fact the first time I did a 200 mile round trip with the air con on the whole journey achieved 48,I. Know it’s nowhere near a direct comparison it’s just I was amazed to be able to get so good consumption and was quite prepared for 35 ish on a run from a petrol after coming from a 2ltr 4 wheel drive diesel similar size that achieved mid 40s On a run.
 

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Ok that’s good so normal parking and slipping of clutch which is normal would be fine in those conditions.

I wouldn’t creep in traffic anyway. Didn’t do that in a manual so wouldn’t do that now. Guess a lot of people that have come from a full automatic may do so as I believe you can do that with that type of transmission.

in regards to turning off AC, I only turned it off on way home so I’m sure the seals won’t dry up. I’ve heard that you should run system at least once a month as that will ensure seals etc stay as they should and not dry out.
I’m sure I read somewhere that up to about 30 or 40mph then it’s more economical to have a window open when driving as opposed to AC but anything over than that then AC works out more economical due to added drag from windows being open etc.

regarding the warranty.I’m going by what others have said on this post. They said they were told that the DCT is covered by the Kia warranty. So is that not true then?

how do you mean techniques of a manual car? I have just been leaving in auto mode and letting it change gear when it feels it is right too.
assume It’s also fine to put it into sport mode? Found that really does accelerate when in that mode due to the higher revs it would change gear at. Only thing I don’t like with that mode is that when you are say at 40 and staying at that speed, it still seems to stay in 4th gear and reving at over 2k revs instead of changing up.
The gearbox is covered by the 7 year warranty (subject to the usual limitations). The clutch packs have more limited cover since it is possible for the driver to prematurely wear them by using the inappropriate driving technique (same goes for manual clutches). We have seen very few autobox failures on here.

Sport mode is intended to provide much more responsive acceleration. To achieve this there are two major effects:

1) Gear changes are at higher rpm. This allows the engine to develop more power.

2) Holding to higher rpm also means that the turbo is spinning faster so more boost is available when the accelerator is pressed.

On mine it will eventually drop into higher gears if you hold a constant speed for long enough, but then why would you be using sport mode if not intending to give it some wellie?.

I echo PicantoABZ's comment re AC. While it does make a difference to consumption it is not all that much. You have not indicated the age/mileage of your car but when mine was very new the consumption was about what you are getting. As the car bedded in if steadily improved. Tyre pressures correct?
 

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I don't think clutch life is an issue with DC gearboxes.
Audi ones have been around since 2005 (I was one of the first to get a DSG Audi) and reliability is fine.
My BIL's Audi A6 DSG taxi'd for 184000 miles without any reliability issues.
 

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On mine it will eventually drop into higher gears if you hold a constant speed for long enough, but then why would you be using sport mode if not intending to give it some wellie?.
Spot on, any gearbox of this type will hold onto a gear for longer in S mode - it's what it's meant to do.
If you don't want it to sit at 4000rpm in 4th gear, manually flick up a gear or put it into D and it will change up.
I found I constantly flicked between modes while driving, there's nothing to say the mode you choose when starting off has to be stuck to for the duration of your journey. ;)
 

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Ok that’s good so normal parking and slipping of clutch which is normal would be fine in those conditions.

I wouldn’t creep in traffic anyway. Didn’t do that in a manual so wouldn’t do that now. Guess a lot of people that have come from a full automatic may do so as I believe you can do that with that type of transmission.
No gas, in 1st with clutch out or any other gear is fine. It is slipping the clutch (manual) that is the killer. I used to use this method in stop go traffic all the time. Saves a lot of wear on clutch, compared to stop, drive forward, stop etc. Let clutch out and let car creep on its own with no gas. FI is great :)
 

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No gas, in 1st with clutch out or any other gear is fine. It is slipping the clutch (manual) that is the killer. I used to use this method in stop go traffic all the time. Saves a lot of wear on clutch, compared to stop, drive forward, stop etc. Let clutch out and let car creep on its own with no gas. FI is great :)
That was my preferred method in a manual or in a TC auto but it is deffo not the right thing for a DCT auto - well at least for the one in my Sporty. On the level it will never fully engage the clutch without pressure on the accelerator and on even a slight uphill the car does not move at all without giving it some gas. Mine does not reach full clutch engagement until about 5 mph in 1st and 7 mph in 2nd which is usually too fast for the traffic queue crawl and is in fact very difficult to smoothly hold even those speeds.
 

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That was my preferred method in a manual or in a TC auto but it is deffo not the right thing for a DCT auto - well at least for the one in my Sporty. On the level it will never fully engage the clutch without pressure on the accelerator and on even a slight uphill the car does not move at all without giving it some gas. Mine does not reach full clutch engagement until about 5 mph in 1st and 7 mph in 2nd which is usually too fast for the traffic queue crawl and is in fact very difficult to smoothly hold even those speeds.
Thanks for that, as a DCT is my preferred choice of next car. So will be fun unlearning 40+ years of driving style.
 

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All these comments abut how to drive the DCT - someone should tell the on-board CPU if it's got smart cruise control - that will slip like hell if stuck in slow moving traffic

Where do I stand then in a warranty claim?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thank you again for all the comments.

so basically what I’ve learnt isjust to leave climate control on and let it do what it needs too.

sounds like it is a fairly reliable gearbox then on these. Should the clutches fail then,would you say these would be classed as wear and tear? So warranty wouldn’t cover?

I really like sport mode, it gives quicker acceleration through the gears. I didn’t realise if it was in this mode I could use paddle, so that’s good to know and good to know that after a while the gear does change up just slower too.
Anyone that uses this frequently, can you confirm how much of a dent it has on mpg etc?

oh yes apologies. Car is about 6 months old with 4500 miles on clock but I’ve only just taken ownership.

tyre pressures when cold seem to all read around 36/37 psi.

im still a little confused at best way to operate when parking forward or reverse. As I say I need to usually straighten up and adjust before in the space properly so usually just take foot off brake and allow it to go at a speed I can control. Any accelerator wouldn’t allow me to park properly. So is this ok to do as if not I have no idea how I should control it as no way would I be able to go fast than 5 mph when trying to park up in my space.

rod9669- you make a good-point there, so how does car control itself when crawling along in smart cruise control. If it over heats due to constant slipping then doesn’t seem right at all.
 

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try it - next time you're in a queue and moving put the cruise control on - it'll set itself at 20, but will follow the car in front at the same speed

It basically does what everyone on here say not to!

Kop-out time - DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK - hover your foot over the brake just incase!!!!!!!!!!
 

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im still a little confused at best way to operate when parking forward or reverse. As I say I need to usually straighten up and adjust before in the space properly so usually just take foot off brake and allow it to go at a speed I can control. Any accelerator wouldn’t allow me to park properly. So is this ok to do as if not I have no idea how I should control it as no way would I be able to go fast than 5 mph when trying to park up in my space.
Using the 'creep' facility with zero throttle is perfectly fine for this.
Literally no other way to do it.
 
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