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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone had ecperiance of using the snow foam lances you can buy. they seem to cover you car in a layer of foam and help all the crud away from the paint seems to say it reduces the swirl and scratch marks from normal mitts.


Just wanting to know if they any good before I spend my hard earned cash.
 

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TFR is great for oxidising paint on older cars.
I used that stuff when I was in car rental years ago and it was ok on new cars. I certainly would not use that stuff on my new or old car as its a strong alkaline and takes all protection off the paint.
Tho' you can buy it with a wax mix as well but costs more. It was the Autosmart brand we used.
 

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Incorrect Davy,

We wash in excess of 700 cars per week, from old to new, Undertakers vehicles.
,/Car Dealerships etc. TFR is just a common name with so many different brands and formulations....i know i have tried most on the market fron Starbrite/Autoglym/Sneddons etc


We use Autosmart Hazsafe, a non caustic TFR, which will not mark alloys/brightwork and prevents streaking due to its low hazard formulation........and will not oxidise paint....



In a commercial car wash, you have to use a traffic film remover to soften the dirt before high pressure washing, then use a wax wash to wash car wich includes a rinse aid......






I have been involved in this business for over 26 years




Taff
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
paddywagon05 said:
Well my answer as owner of a valeting business is that you should just not use it thw way you describe.
Firstly you need to prespray the vehicle with a tfr...then hot wash off the dirt.

Then cover the car with a snow foam[ours contain a wax], sponge vehicle then rinse off with cold water.

Taff

Yes my description wasnt not the best, it should have been the same as yours minus the prespray and hot wash.



Would it cause a problem if I did not prespray and hot wash? and went for:

Foam

Rinse

2 bucket wash



Thanks for the help just shows how you can get different info from different people.
 

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There are so many products out there when washing your car...i was refering to our commercial car wash/valeting proceedure, where it would be impossible to wash vehicles unless we used the TFR.
Just a point, as Davy mentioned in his comment...there are some very cheap Truck tfr's out there that if not mixed correctly will lift the chrome from a bull bar never mind oxidise the paint......i was just refering that not all named TFR'S are the same, plus the dilution rate requires plenty of practice....we have a metering unit, so once the mix is agreed, none of the workers can add a little extra etc...



The important thing, never mind which brand you use, is that you remove the dirt from the car prior to using a mit/sponge brush etc.



I have 2 black cars, i use the company wash, the only difference is that i leather off after washing.



Taff
 

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I am correct for the stuff we used it was called ACTIVE 8 traffic film remover TFR.
It IS a strong alkaline. I was in the car rental for 12 years in total and we valeted 50 cars a day. I also went on courses with regards to Autosmart products which are great products but was informed of the strength of Active 8. If you got it on your skin you could feel it burning. Now the wash machine we used was set by MR Autosmart so that the mix ratio was the correct amount.
E.G of active 8 on a white Astra 5 year old. The paint lost all shine and and over time the paint oxidised. Remedy for that was a respray. Tried all sorts of cutting compounds but no way back.
Black Metro one use of Active 8 and it turn a greyish black. We managed to get it black and shiny again with T Cut and a polish and then a good coating of wax.
Try putting some on bare aluminium and you see it react very quickly.
I wont go to car washes to get my car done cos I know that some of them use a truck wash or TFR all the time and I have seen cars that have been going all the time and they end up with flat paint.
TFR is ok if the paint is stained with road dirt and used only once then the car gets a polish and wax after but only on newish paint surfaces and not on cars with a bit of age.



Edited by: davy
 

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Heres the script on active TFR wash

APPEARANCE Liquid
COLOUR Light (or pale) Straw
ODOUR Mild
SOLUBILITY Soluble in water. Miscible with water
BOILING POINT (°C) ~ 100
MELTING POINT (°C) ~ 0
RELATIVE DENSITY ~ 1.058 (20°C)
pH-VALUE, CONC. SOLUTION 13
pH-VALUE, DILUTED SOLUTION 11.3 @ 1%
VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUND
(VOC)
2 g/litreGENERAL INFORMATION
This product has low toxicity. Only large volumes may have adverse impact on human health.
INHALATION
May cause irritation to the respiratory system.
INGESTION
May cause discomfort if swallowed.
SKIN CONTACT
Irritating to skin. The product contains a small amount of sensitising substance which may provoke an allergic reaction among sensitive
individuals after repeated contact.
EYE CONTACT
Irritating to eyes.
HEALTH WARNINGS Serious long-term effects are not known to be related to this type of product. SKIN. Defatting, drying
and cracking of skin. EYES, NOSE AND MOUTH.
ROUTE OF ENTRY
Skin and/or eye contact.
MEDICAL SYMPTOMS
No specific symptoms noted, but this chemical may still have adverse health impact, either in general or on certain individuals.
Name 2-BUTOXYETHANOL
Toxic Dose 1 - LD 50 1480 mg/kg (oral rat)
Toxic Dose 2 - LD 50 220 mg/kg (ipr-rat)
Toxic Conc. - LC 50 450 ppm/4h (inh-rat)
Other Health Effects
ACGIH Carcinogen List.
Name SODIUM HYDROXIDE
Toxic Dose 1 - LD 50 40 mg/kg (oral-mouse)
Other Health Effects
This substance has no evidence of carcinogenic properties.
Name TRISODIUM NITRILOTRIACETATE
Toxic Dose 1 - LD 50 1000-2000 mg/kg (oral rat)
Toxicological Information
Nitrilotriacetic acid, trisodium salt (NTA) has caused kidney tumours in rats and mice when administered orally in high concentrations. The
tumours are based on organ damage that can only occur when extremely high threshold limit concentrations, as compared with possible
human exposure, are exceeded. In view of the potential degree of exposure, there should be no cancer risk to humans.
3 / 7
Report Date : 07





Edited by: davy
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
to go back to my OP for a home user who washes 2 cars & a van (MH) once a week is it worth buying a snow lance and using the snow foam as a pre wash to lift the grim off before washing with a mitt?
 

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Active 8 amazing on concrete floors thats what we ended up useing ours for if you used it on anyother day than a cold wet day it left streaks etched into the paint which then had to be buffed we even tried useing it at 200-1 TFR's are great but you have to be carefull personaly for the home user if you use one do 1 panel at a time that way it wont dry because thats when you can have issues
 

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Exactly what Paul stated...do not let any TFR dry on the car prior to washing it off, especially carefull on sunny day.

I can not understand why people use the incorrect chemicals for the job..why use a high active chemical to wash cars when thier are loads of safer tfr's out there....
Our Wash/wax hi foam is Ph neutral.



Taff
 

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I will tell you why they use TFR all the time. Its all down to cost mate. The car rental firms spend a fortune on cleaning materials so Active 8 TFR was the cheapest at that time. I asked the branch I worked in if we could get a wash with wax in and they said it would be too costly for them.
The stuff your using is PH13 neat which has the same PH as ammonia
. Tho' diluted it is alot safer to use. Still harmful to skin on a long term basis.
 

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Davy,
I agree, but we do not come into skin contact with the TFR, we reduce concentrate to level we find suitable to remove grime,which has a very low PH after dilution,which is applied with a hand sprayer over the car, working from bottom to top...this is then hot steam washed off at 60 degrees.

Then we use a PH neutral wash/wax, this is snow foamed on vehicle and then hand sponged, no gloves required...then onto next guys who cold rinse the soap off..



Costs..i agree are critical, but around 80% of my customers are black cars, and although i can buy tfr's etc dirt cheap, i will not lower our standards...so use the product that reflects our work.

We have water softner plant and iron filters at each of the water tank outlets to help control the water...as we use water from our own sunk well



Taff
 

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Taff, that sounds like you have a professional outfit going there good show. I am glad someone is using the stuff responsively and what your saying your wash does not affect the black cars. Good that your using a neutral PH wash wax after the TFR as this would dilute further the TFR if any was left on.
When I was using the active 8 back in the 90s some cars with solid colours did not have a clear coat laquer after a base coat paint like we have now and this is the type of car that use to suffer from washes with TFR.
 

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Sorry if i sounded a bit agreaved with your original TFR statement...i understand where you are coming from....we get cars in for valeting that should be Red, instead Pink etc...compound and sealant....and yes TFR has affected those....
We clean a lot of Contract white vans for courier company DPD...these as you know will only have the basic one coat, and are hard to maintain..but we have the contract as we provide a good end result.



Anyway..i better get involved with the valeting now as its a bank holliday weekend here and we are up the walls



Taff
 
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