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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone!! Haven't seen a topic regarding clutch re-newal here. But I thought that I would share my experience with you.Been a mechanic for 30yrs now semi retired, own a 2006 Sedona CRDI with 35000 on the clock, and a Twin axle caravan. The last trip out to the camping site smelt the clutch burning, worried on the return trip so I took it easy, but try as I might I could not make the clutch slip again.
More to the point, taking the van to Europe in two months, did not like the idea of the clutch slipping, so ordered a new kit, and went ahead.
Now, to anyone who wants to replace the clutch themselves (and having quite a bit of mechanical ability) it is possible to change it without dropping the subframe, done it last week!! also to remove a gearbox it's possible without removing the subframe.
If anyone is interested in the method I used I could post it up on here.
 

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If no one else is interested I would. Always interested in finding a way to do a job quicker and easier plus my clutch has done 82,000 miles now so before long I would imagine it will want doing
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
To replace a clutch on a Sedona CRDI.

First of all, I will not be held responsible for any
injuries or damage howsoever caused by anyone to anything while following
my guide to replacing a complete clutch
kit on a Kia Sedona.

Secondly common sense should prevail regarding your safety
following this guide. The vehicle should be parked on level ground (I did not
have a ramp or pit) with the handbrake on (assuming the handbrake is in good
working order and upto MOT standards, and the rear wheels chocked in front and
behind. While using axle stands it is advisable to use short wooden planks between
the stands and chassis immediately behind the front subframe rear mounts, (but
not touching the subframe). Also I
presume that you are mechanically competent, especially in removing rusty and
seized nuts & bolts.

The equipment I had was a 3 and a half ton trolley jack,
1ton trolley jack two ton engine crane and a pair of axle stands.

To begin with, depends on the type of wheel on your vehicle,
(I have alloys with centre caps) ordinary steel wheels = remove the wheel cover, slacken the driveshaft
securing nut then slacken the wheel nuts. Proceed with jacking the vehicle and
placing on axle stands high enough for you to comfortably crawl and work
underneath. Remove the connector to the air filter box, remove breather pipe,
remove air intake scoop, air filter box and the rubber pipe to the turbo. Roll
two sheets of kitchen towel and place into the intake side of the turbo (don't
force the towel in). Next remove wiring clip from battery tray outrigger,
remove battery. It would be better to remove the two heavy duty cables to the
fuse box and the relay box (this will enable you to keep the wiring out of the
way) then remove the battery tray. Before
I carry on I must apologise now if I forget to tell you to remove a cable or a
component.

Now you can see yourself what needs removing. Next unclip
the reverse connector from the switch at the rear of the gearbox, remove
connector from Speedo sensor and crank sensor, remove the crank sensor just in
case. You can leave the starter cables till your underneath. Begin by removing
the two bolts from the gearbox side securing the starter. Underneath you can
remove the heavy duty starter cable and the ign wire, remove the last starter
bolt, remove starter, bendix end down, it will pass, remember replacing is the
reversal in most cases. There are four small ten mill bolts to remove, then
just behind the sump there is a lower gearbox mounting, remove bolt from each
side. This mounting will be used to support the engine before you move onto the
next step. Use a suitable jack (I used my three and a half ton jack) with a
solid block of wood that spans a bit wider than the lower gearbox mounting.
Jack up just enough to start raising the engine, ensuring that the block of
wood is clear of the engine sump and gearbox.

You can now begin to remove the rear gearbox mounting
complete (two parts). Hopefully you remembered to remove the securing clip on
the hydraulic pipe Remove the wiring
from the bulk head side of the gearbox, it can be stored out of the way near
the radiator. On the gear selector there is a balance weight, remove it. Remove
the ""˜R' clips and washers from the ends of the gear selector cables, one of the
rubber bearings had partially seized on mine plenty of cleaning and copper
grease needed here, remove the selector cable mounting four bolts. Remove the
selector that lifts the main gear selector two bolts (the left one looking from
the front). Regarding the clutch slave cylinder securing bolts, mine had begun
to seize up, the bleeding nipple had also seized up. I eventually managed to
remove the two slave cylinder bolts and secured away from the gearbox.
Underneath slacken the bulkhead side gearbox mounting , remove the bolts, (the
top two mounting bolts must be inserted before you replace the mounting,
otherwise you cannot insert them). Remove the three offside driveshaft support
bolts. Now you can drain the oil from the gearbox bolt at the bottom and it
holds about two and a half litres. At the offside wheel arch remove the bolt
securing the bottom arm and the hub and separate. Remove split pin from the
trackrod end and disengage the joint
from the steering arm of the hub, you can remove the driveshaft complete(slight
prising at the diff to remove) repeat on the nearside, but this time it is more
tricky to remove the drive shaft, use two leavers as near to the top as
possible and as near to the bottom as possible, do not force but be quite firm
in prising the shaft out. Depending on if you need to completely remove the
gearbox there is more work needed here, and I'll cover that in an appendix
later on. Above you can now remove the front side mounting (after checking that
the jack is secured in place!). Finally remove the reversing light switch at
the top rear of the gearbox.

Leaving one top gearbox bolt secured I lassoed the gearbox
with the rope just to the wing side of the gear selector and the balance knot
slightly to the bulkhead side of the selector. Hitch up the engine crane and
take the strain until you can unscrew the last slackened bolt by hand. Now
comes the dodgy bit of manoeuvring, the tail end of the gearbox will just about
fit between the bottom of the inner wing and top of the subframe, as long as you
can twist the gearbox (lift the diff up) so that it can slide (I used a small
trolley jack to help the twist). The box will move far enough back to slacken
the pressure plate bolts and remove with the centre plate downwards. The thrust
bearing can and should be renewed now. Also check the spigot bearing.

The results I found with my clutch was, thrust bearing still
ok, centre plate STRESSED STEEL was blue obviously overheated and not even worn
halfway (35,000 on the clock 10,000 towing, I reckon solo between 110,000 &
150,000 before I would have had to change the clutch. Obviously depends on your
driving habits). Due to the overheating of the centre plate it was safer to
renew anyway.

To fit a new clutch I don't have a centralizing tool. When
the centre plate and pressure plate are offered up from the bottom (there is
just enough room to carry this out)centralization can be made by feeling the
centre plate outer edge at three points around the pressure plate, the centre
plate lies below the pressure plate face by about half a millimetre, patience
and equal amounts at the three areas will ensure centralization of the centre
plate as close as a Halford's clutch tool!!! The pressure plate, as with every
vehicle should be evenly tightened and tourqu'ed. Lightly copper grease the spigot
shaft end and splines and the thrust bearing slide.

Lower the small jack carefully so that the gearbox takes up
it natural position to be offered up to the engine a bit of juggling and
pushing should see the gearbox shaft enter the centre plate and then the spigot
bearing. Everything else is the reversal of removing, except for the driveshaft's
which need to be softly persuaded to enter the diff splines (before I forget,
check the diff splines they can move off centre).

TO REMOVE THE BOX FROM THE VEHICLE.

One might consider the extra work involved worth it just to
renew the clutch. But, while refitting the gearbox I noticed hairline cracks at
the reverse gear end of the gearbox, and only a removal could have made a
successful welding repair, otherwise, I would not be writing this part! I have
included some photographs of how things looked when I changed the clutch, and
one or two of the cracks I found.

Ok then with a wire brush and a few cans of <s>John Smiths</s>
SORRY WD 40, clean the 4 subframe mounting stud threads and lubricate
sparingly, same with the steering rack mountings and the same with the panard
rod mounting (the stabilizer bar from the bottom arm to the front of the
subframe), no need to actually remove the mounting just to slacken quite a bit,
careful with your eyes!! Remove either of the anti roll bar ball joint that
connect to the bottom arm. You may need to use a thin jaw mole grips to hold on
to the ball side of the joint, remove just one of them!!

With one single bolt at the top securing the gearbox to the
engine, the jack supporting both and a lasso around the gearbox (rope with knot
as described earlier, but not as important) and working at the nearside, trace
the ABS cable remove the grommet from the inner wing and disconnect the cable
and pull through, secure on the strut. Remove the N/S brake calliper and hang
up with wire or string through the ABS hole in the inner wing. Proceed to
remove top suspension mounting (mark position of the studs to the holes as it
has to be replaced exactly in the same position). Remove the plastic inner
wheel arch covers (three pieces, be careful removing the plastic clips. Screws
securing the ABS cable were removed earlier on weren't they?) the small trolley
jack can now be used with a piece of timber underneath the N/S subframe.
slacken the inner mounting bolt on the bottom arm, do not remove!!!!! The
bottom arm should now just drop and hang. Remove two bolts securing bracket for
bottom radiator pipe carefully! Remove
N/S steering rack bracket and O/S steering rack mounting bolts ( this is only
to free the rack in case of damage). Lubricate the subframe mounting studs once
again and with a long reach socket begin to undo the N/S front and rear first
(you should get away with just undoing the front O/S mounting and removing the
N/S front & rear). As long as you have the jack supporting the subframe
remove the front and rear N/S mounting nuts. Carefully lower the jack until the
subframe is close to the end of the mounting studs. Now, take the strain on the
rope lassoed to the gearbox and remove the last bolt securing the gearbox to
the engine. Carefully move the gearbox onto the subframe, at which time the
weight of the gearbox will push the subframe further down, at this point if you
have moved the gearbox onto the subframe you can balance the box here with one
hand while lowering the engine crane a little. The idea is to help the rear end
of the gearbox to drop down (you can manouvered your legs to support the box at
this time) lowering the crane a little further you can see now that the whole
box can drop down in this manner, probably lowering the subframe a little
further. You should be able to carefully lower the box right down onto the
floor in this manner.

To replace the box try and remember how you lassoed the box,
and by jacking the engine crane and supporting the box you can manoeuvred the
box back into place, the rest is the reversal.

I'm writing this a few days after completing mine and having
a party in between, therefore if I have left anything out I do apologise, but
like I said earlier, I do presume that anyone who does undertake this task has
some experience and knowledge. As with the cambelt change, no one knew if it could
be done until someone tried. Well I have tried and it can be done. Anyhow, if
anybody undertakes this task and thinks that I could help with advise please
ask.
 

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Hi MININUT

Thanks for this I know it will be a big help for me and many more . When alining the clutch is there enough room(without removing the box completely) to place a small dowel made up with masking tape or such to fit the spigget bearing and hold the clutch plate central until the pressure plate is tightened and holding the plate central and then to remove it ?
 

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Hello MININUT, First of all welcome to the 'club' - nice to have someone with your expertise on board. Just read your detailed post - and found it very useful. Bruno has said in a previous post how difficult it is to gain information on servicing and repairing the Sedona and articles like this - from someone who has done the job are very helpful. I will be printing it off and adding it to my Sedona repair files.I have managed to acquire a couple of Sedona mauals on CD from different sources - mainly Bruno and Ebay. These have proved very useful - the information is usually there but you have to search it out and always checking that it relates to your particular model and spec, and which market it was designed for ie UK,US,etc - which I suppose applies to all Workshop Manuals, so it is great to get detailed info like this.
Thanks for going to the considerable trouble involved in posting this info which I am sure will be of great benefit to myself and many other members.
The only question I would raise is why do you think the clutch has started to fail at this relatively low mileage - do you think it could be to do with towing a van - although I would have thought the Sedona would be quite capable of towing. Also as an experienced mechanic what is your opinion of the general build quality and design of the Sedona?
I have a 2006 2.9 TS with just under 30k on the clock, although I don't tow, so I will be keeping an eye on the clutch!
Thanks,
Alan


Edited by: alcutler
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi thanks for the comments, and a pleasure to help if I can.First of all 'Bruno' yes there is room to insert a homemade tool, but I have found it more accurate to feel the edges. The center plate lies about half a millimeter below the pressure plate so makes it easier than ever to centralize. I have used home made tools in the past, only where access is unlimited.

'Acutler' hi and thanks for your comments. To answer your question, yes it is low mileage for year, because we bought the car from a dealer, it was a demonstrator top of the range silver with the steps and leather seats, beautiful car. Therefore with only four miles on the clock it was a bargain, paid the same price as the previous sedona four years earlier. (i changed the cambelt on that one before I had access to a laptop and this forum, did it in situ, main problem was slackening the crank pulley, had to make a holding tool) anyhow, I dont like the layout of the new sedona, so with this being the last of the old model we are trying to preserve it. Therefore it stands for maybe a week or two before it gets a good run. This was the problem I think, just like brake discs they rust when they are stationary for a while. I am convinced that this was the problem, I did not realise the clutch was slipping in fifth gear, it was very windy. When I noticed the revs climbing and the speedo static I got a cold shiver!! Nursed the unit to the caravan site, used the car solo for a few days it was ok. On the homeward trek, I tried to create the same scenario, but failed to get the clutch to slip again? Definately contaminated faces! I knew the clutch had heated up considerably, so losing a lot of temper in the related steel and springs. Because we are touring Europe from July to August I thought it safer to change, and cheaper. The clutch plate like I said earlier had hardly worn at all, but to be on the safe side. If I was not towing I would have expected the clutch to last at least till well over 120,000 miles. Nice to chat about these things. Keep it going!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi thanks for the comment. I have posted a reply to Bruno and Alcutler, but god knows where its gone, I' just getting round to using this forum, tried to upload photos with the post but failed (why?)BRUNO - yes there is room for you to insert a tool fiddly depends on its length! I find it a lot easier lying on my back and feeling the the ridge at the three access points, its about half a millimeter. Its what your comfortable with, I have used all kinds of tools and found their quite second rate, and like you have produced a homemade unit.

ALCUTLER - My problem is that the car is not used that often. We need 7 seats for our profession and this is the best of the 7 seaters that we have bought and tried. I bought this car as a demonstrator with only 4 miles on the clock! I paid the same amount as I paid for a 2.9 sedona four years previous? I changed the cambelt on that sedon before I had access to a laptop and this forum. The only problem I came across was slackening the crankshaft pulley bolt. Removing the covers only needs a bar at the top to move the engine a couple of inches, another tale. We dont like the seating arrangements on the new sedona, so we are trying to preserve this one, it's top of the range leather seats side steps the lot. Which brings me to the point of why I changed the clutch - the car had been standing for a while maybe a week and a half, and like brake discs left standing for a while they get contaminated. All was well for 20 miles, the wind was breeze, head on, in fifth gear noticed the revs climbing and the speedo static!!!! a cold chill went through me, nursed the unit to the site. Used the car solo for a few days. Then on the homeward journey tried to create the same scenario where the clutch started slipping, but failed? Arrived home ok. I knew that the clutch had heated up, burning smell was quite noticeable. If then the clutch had heated up it would affect the temper of the steel in the center plate and the pressure plate. After removing the clutch, the steel on the center plate was blue, confirming my suspicions. With a trip around Europe in the summer I thought it best to renew, just in case. The friction plate had hardly any wear on it. If I was only driving solo I would predict the clutch to have lasted well over 120,000 miles. This is by far the best 7 seater around. Oh and yes the air con is caput, 100% it's a leak but where? I would gratefully receive some advice if anyone has this experience. Seen a bit about it in the forum but very vague. Thanks again for your welcome, and keep up the great contribution to the forum.
 

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Hi MininutI am sadly in the same position as yourself - suffering withintermittent clutch slip which cannot be 'manufactured' but willmanifest itself at the mostinopportunetimes.
I have a bog standard 2002 2.9td Sedona (which has only done 68000 miles) and was wondering if this is the same spec as the strip down you have described?
I am toying with the idea of tackling the clutch myself after receiving a quote of just under £700 from a garage but will check out the price of the kit before making adecision.

Cheers Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi StedeakSorry to hear of your problem. First of all, I hope that I did not make out that the job is an easy one?
The method will be the same on your Sedona. I paid £163 trade for a decent clutch kit. If your not experienced with clutches, I would certainly advise you to purchase a clutch alignment tool before commencing the job. The quote you received would suggest that they would remove the complete unit with subframe to change the clutch.
Best of luck with the job, if you are a diy mechanic make sure you have a couple of days free to complete the job.
Most important MAKE SURE THE VEHICLE IS SECURELY SUPPORTED WITH DECENT AXLE STANDS!!! If I can be of assistance you can email me on [email protected] where I will give you my contact No.
 

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Hi mininut I have just started to strip my Sedona to take the gearbox off.
My Sedona has decided to start leaking gear oil into the bell housing would you have any idea where it would be coming from its driving me mad.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi, are you sure its gear oil not engine oil? There are two ways in which gear oil can enter the bell housing, (1) damage to the casing, or (2) worn oil seal on the input shaft oil seal.Will be evident when you have actually removed the gearbox.
 

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Hi thanks for your speedy reply it is defo gear oil I have spent all day trying to get the gearbox off what a nightmare at the moment I have the gearbox half hanging out there's about 2 inch between the gearbox and engine I just can't get it to move any further.
Gear oil does not leak when car is parked up but when you drive a few miles then stop it starts dripping out of the bell housing I was also thinking it was possibly the seal on the input shaft do you know if it's an easy job to change.
I notice you said it could also be down to damage to the casing is that likely when the leak is inside the bell housing.
Do I have to drop the full subframe to remove the gearbox totally.

Many thanks Carl.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi, wasnt sure if you meant leaking after a drive, or just leaked when you began removing the box.Its highly unlikely that its damage, but I have seen damage to the inside diff casing in the bell housing, this is due to foreign material that has entered the housing and got trapped between the pressure plate/flywheel thus causing casing damage. (can be repaired by welding in a patch).
It now sounds to me that its more likely the input shaft seal.
You only have to drop down the subframe on the passenger side of the car, you do not have to fully remove the subframe.
I have posted the method I adopted to remove the gearbox, same method less work to re-new the clutch. On the sedona forum have a look under "Sedona Clutch" posting on the first page.
If you need more info, you can email, wont be able to answer as quickly though, good luck!
 

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Hi mininut I can't seem to see the pictures you mentioned of the cracks and where you had the gearbox welded.
Was the cracks inside the bell housing on your Sedona.
 
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