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Discussion Starter #1
Guys,
I have just had the engine replaced under warranty in my Kia Pro_C'eed GT however it seems to have less power than the original?
The new engine will only boost to ~80KPA (9psi) compared to the previous fault engine that often went over 18psi

I'm interested to hear from other owners of un-modified GT's to find out what the normal boost pressure your getting.
I have a ODB2 adaptor and the Android Torque app that measures max of 9.4psi boost.


Thanks.
 

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Guys,
I have just had the engine replaced under warranty in my Kia Pro_C'eed GT however it seems to have less power than the original?
The new engine will only boost to ~80KPA (9psi) compared to the previous fault engine that often went over 18psi

I'm interested to hear from other owners of un-modified GT's to find out what the normal boost pressure your getting.
I have a ODB2 adaptor and the Android Torque app that measures max of 9.4psi boost.


Thanks.
Doesn't sound right to me. I get 120kPa and rising at full throttle, but not really the weather here to be testing the upper boost limit!

I guess either the ECU is not allowing it, or it is and there is a leak somewhere. And if it is the former, might it be they have deliberately limited boost while the engine is new? It would have been nice if they had told you! Or maybe it is a bench setting and the ECU hasn't been updated?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Most of the Youtube videos of the proceed GT show the boost gauge on the dash going up to ~120kPa(17.5psi) so I believe this is normal.

I have read on a few Veloster/Ceed forums that guys where saying the 1.6T engine started at 80kPA but after loosening up it went up to ~120kPa. I can't imaging a engine doubling its boost just because the bearing and piston rings bedded in. It has to be a engine management thing just like when the engine is cold.

Or a pipe is loose or maybe the boost solenoid valve isn't working correctly?

Anyone else still only getting 80kPa?
 

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Mine (ceed gt) goes to 80 but peaks slightly over every so often. When I joined the forum, that seemed to be normal. 18psi sounds very high for a stock factory setup.
 

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Guys,
I have just had the engine replaced under warranty in my Kia Pro_C'eed GT however it seems to have less power than the original?
The new engine will only boost to ~80KPA (9psi) compared to the previous fault engine that often went over 18psi

I'm interested to hear from other owners of un-modified GT's to find out what the normal boost pressure your getting.
I have a ODB2 adaptor and the Android Torque app that measures max of 9.4psi boost.


Thanks.


Could this be why your previous engine failed?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The engine didn't fail.
My car was randomly reporting High Cylinder pressure codes for the last 4 years and Kia couldn't work out why but it didn't seem to be linked directly to the max boost as it faulted a few time at low rpm with low boost (under load).
The motor was replaced as a last option but before this, replacing the turbo, waste-gate, map sensor, boost solenoid, intake valve clean, head removal and machining didn't fix it.

On many occasions the old engine would go up to 20psi and never report a code.
This is a interesting read, the Kia spokesman said the standard boost is 1.5-bar (21.7psi) on the Pro_Ceed GT, (that's a lot more than I'm getting!)
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/proceed-gt-holds-performance-potential

But moving on..
The car has gone from one extreme to the other now.
From what I read on the web it looks like the cars 'standard boost' should be over 80kPa.

Interesting to see what other owners are getting?
Love to hear from someone that is using the Torque App to measure the turbo boost.

Might also do a 0-100KM/h run to see if I get close to the rated time as a comparison considering the engine is new.

Cheers!
 

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Sounds like a long and horrible story. Do you know how the car measures cylinder pressure - there isn't a sensor in there is there?


Perhaps it is a "new engine" protection mechanism to allow it to bed in a bit?
 

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I'm really interested to see where this thread goes because as I say, mine generally sits at 80 foot to floor. On road performance suggests it's running around the published figures but that's only going on comparisons with similar spec'd cars such as fr's and fez st's. If I were to double my boost I'm pretty sure I'd be eating focus St's and golf gti's which shouldn't be true. However if I'm missing out on even a bit of boost, I'm heading to a dealer and finding out what's going on.
Having searched through the forum again, it does seem split between people claiming 80, others claiming 120 and the odd few saying 160.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I would have thought just the MAP sensor would detect the pressure however the knock-sensor and exhaust temp sensor could also detect out of range readings.

By the way, when I say the engine was replaced, this was just the lower block which confuses me how replacing the combustion chamber can half the boost.
I would have thought external components like turbo, ecu, sensors would control this?

If it's a new engine protection system then why doesn't any one know about it at Kia?

Sounds like a long and horrible story. Do you know how the car measures cylinder pressure - there isn't a sensor in there is there?


Perhaps it is a "new engine" protection mechanism to allow it to bed in a bit?
 

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Glennbot, none of these are measurements of cylinder pressure and certainly not MAP (Manifold Air Pressure). MAP is the primary control for boost and while this is related to cylinder pressure it is not the same thing at all. Knock sensor is used to adjust ignition timing for optimum performance with variable fuel quality and also does not measure cylinder pressure so I don't know how this fault code can be generated.


I was simply speculating about reduced boos being a means to protect a new engine - how do you know no-one knows about it at KIA?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I think you would agree that there isn't a sensor in the combustion chamber that measures the cylinder pressure. So how does a car determine the engine has high pressure?

As far as I know the ECU must determine this from other sensors. That's why I suggested the ones that are closely connected to the combustion measurement process. But maybe others could add to the HCP detection like Air-intake-temp, humidity, Map, Timing, exhaust temp, oxygen sensors (any others)?

Also, does the definition of High Cylinder pressure actually mean the pressure after ignition or maybe just the turbo boost pressure of the air coming into the cylinder?
This is measured by the MAP sensor right?

I know that if your compression is too high and the octane is too low then the knock sensor detects a ping. So does the car ping if the boost is too high? I have read that high performance cars need high octane is this because the cylinder pressure are extreme? (obviously this all relates to timing as well)


When I say no one at Kia knows... When you've had your car back to the dealer over ten times complaining about this fault for 4 years and the final option was to replace everything! There wasn't a oblivious solution to the problem. Like most faults it's a process of elimination (and in this case a bit of trial and error).
The other problem in Australia with the Proceed GT is only a few hundred where sold so the dealers don't have a lot of exposure to problems and solutions.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not here complaining about Kia as they have been very supportive along the fault finding journey and based on this I would gladly buy another Kia due to this support and standing behind their product.

But hopefully the HCP issue is in the past now.



Glennbot, none of these are measurements of cylinder pressure and certainly not MAP (Manifold Air Pressure). MAP is the primary control for boost and while this is related to cylinder pressure it is not the same thing at all. Knock sensor is used to adjust ignition timing for optimum performance with variable fuel quality and also does not measure cylinder pressure so I don't know how this fault code can be generated.


I was simply speculating about reduced boos being a means to protect a new engine - how do you know no-one knows about it at KIA?
 

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This isn't the first post about boost and when I checked a few years ago mine never went above 90!
(Power always went full scale but never boost.)

This was with an original (2013 non-Tech base model) bought new in March 2014 and kept for 4 years until April 2018.
(Also changed MAP sensor - but same result!)
 

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I think you would agree that there isn't a sensor in the combustion chamber that measures the cylinder pressure. So how does a car determine the engine has high pressure?

As far as I know the ECU must determine this from other sensors. That's why I suggested the ones that are closely connected to the combustion measurement process. But maybe others could add to the HCP detection like Air-intake-temp, humidity, Map, Timing, exhaust temp, oxygen sensors (any others)?

Also, does the definition of High Cylinder pressure actually mean the pressure after ignition or maybe just the turbo boost pressure of the air coming into the cylinder?
This is measured by the MAP sensor right?

I know that if your compression is too high and the octane is too low then the knock sensor detects a ping. So does the car ping if the boost is too high? I have read that high performance cars need high octane is this because the cylinder pressure are extreme? (obviously this all relates to timing as well)


When I say no one at Kia knows... When you've had your car back to the dealer over ten times complaining about this fault for 4 years and the final option was to replace everything! There wasn't a oblivious solution to the problem. Like most faults it's a process of elimination (and in this case a bit of trial and error).
The other problem in Australia with the Proceed GT is only a few hundred where sold so the dealers don't have a lot of exposure to problems and solutions.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not here complaining about Kia as they have been very supportive along the fault finding journey and based on this I would gladly buy another Kia due to this support and standing behind their product.

But hopefully the HCP issue is in the past now.

Interesting thoughts. If HCP was determined from the MAP then surely it would be called high manifold pressure, since this is what is being measured.


I take your point that excessive boost could lead to dieseling (not quite the same as pinking which is caused by over advanced ignition timing) and this could be picked up by the knock sensor. But surely if you car was over boosting this would have been picked up relatively easily, and replacing a lower block is a bit mystifying as a cure too. Perhaps even the dealer/KIA does not really understand what the fault was.


None of this helps your original post though - I think your suggestion of a 0 - 100 kph test would show if your car was making about the correct power with the new engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I knew I had a problem!

While driving the car today it lost all power and the engine went into Limp mode.
The OBD2 reported a PO299 error.

P0299 Turbocharger/Supercharger A Underboost Condition

Back to the dealer this week to try and resolve the problem... Stay tuned.

I'm not happy.
 

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gosh,,, this is a horror story...… I couldn't imagine owning a car for that long with problems..... hopefully it will get sorted but are you not thinking enough is enough now?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Update: Low boost pressure was caused by the mechanic putting the wrong pipes on the wastegate.
Turbo is boosting up to 18psi again!

Last problem to solve is the rough idle - details to follow.
 

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Update: Low boost pressure was caused by the mechanic putting the wrong pipes on the wastegate. details to follow.
Good grief!
 

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Going back to the HCP, the management probably works out cylinder pressure from measured boost pressure and exhaust gas pressure.

My stock 2017 boost usually max at 80-90kpa but every now and then it will boost at 110kpa, Kia dealer can't explain why the difference. They just say there are no faults stored but the boost is either being held back or overboosting occasionally, which for it not to fault would point to the recirc valve on the top of the intercooler venting boost back into the intake.
 

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80-90 here but has occasionally hit around 100 (rarely though) as it's doesn't get pushed that hard to be honest.
 
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