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If, as you say it's at the top of the bumper, could someone have sat/leant against it, possibly causing the bumer tp flex and therefore delaminate the laquer
 

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My money is on somebody employed by the dealership hit it with another car.

My first car came from a Ford dealership but wasn't a Ford. Long story short is speedo failed & they got a local dealership for that make to repair it. They did then someone hit it with a new car.

Its a LOT more common than people think.
 

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Yes it is common. I have had two instances. The first was when the mechanic (or should I say technician!) moved my car from where I parked it and forgot to engage reverse and bumped into the wall about 200mm in front of the car scuffing the bumper; the second was when we turned up to collect a "new" six month old car and they had scratched the rear wing when moving it in the compound. Both times it was fixed by the group's body shop although it took a few attempts before we were satisfied with the second car along with suitable compensation for the inconvenience! Neither car was a Kia.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Just to clarify everyone, i have 0 reason to suspect it was the dealer before i picked it up. How Kia have said it looked like the paint was cause of an accident i have 0 idea, i have asked for their reasoning but havent responded yet. I will be taking it to the motor Ombudsman.

Also if you look online the artic white has a lot of issues like this, its very common espcially on the bumpers, guessing due to the plastic, believe theres been law suits in the US.
 

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Would help if you had images of this concern? I used to work for a motor manufacturer so can perhaps give some context as to why they argue it's delaminating / not defect.

Before you approach the motor ombudsman it might be worth asking if Kia will send out an assessor for your paint. OEMs will usually call on Azko Nobel or similar to offer an independent report to base any final decision. It's likely that the motor ombudsman would request this too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Here is an imagine from April, so basically the top clear started to peel away from the top down and then the paint under it started to just flake off .

Still no response from Kia, won't even given me a written response to the reasoning they believe it was damage. Will be reporting to motor and hopefully that will push them .
 

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Here is an imagine from April, so basically the top clear started to peel away from the top down and then the paint under it started to just flake off .

Still no response from Kia, won't even given me a written response to the reasoning they believe it was damage. Will be reporting to motor and hopefully that will push them .

No image showing.

Just make sure that if you take it to ombudsman you get a independent report to back your claim up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Sorry imagine here hopefully
Automotive parking light Car Grille Vehicle Automotive lighting


I've asked the people who examined my car first for the report they sent to Kia, they are a third party company who just do the paint work for Kia so hopefully they are impartial and can do me a good report
 

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Sorry imagine here hopefully View attachment 11364

I've asked the people who examined my car first for the report they sent to Kia, they are a third party company who just do the paint work for Kia so hopefully they are impartial and can do me a good report
Good plan but you may find they just sent photos. They may be independent but Kia give them a great deal of work so remember they are not necessarily on your side. Have they offered an opinion? If it was bad paint would they put that in writing? They may not want to get involved.

From my own experience I wouldn't bother with The Motor Obudsman, it is very long winded and unless you have a qualified experts report they will just side with Kia. You would be just as well commissioning an expert report yourself and presenting that to Kia and if they won't acknowledge that use legal protection on your insurance if you have it or small claims court.

But all this depends on the cost of the repair and how much hassle you are prepared to put up with
 

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Have had a quick look at the image (thank you for sending a high Res image!)

If you have already had the issue inspected and if arranged by Kia, 90% likely it's Azko Nobel. They do provide commentary along with photos.

From the images (unsure if image noise or other) but there is some concern..

1) what looks to be a base plastic layer (look very closely under the headlight) unless dirt. Almost looks as if the paint wasn't bonded properly?
2) stone chipping damage, albeit minor
3) what seems to be the plastic showing through on the leading edge of the lower bumper - see faint dark line.

Have you had any warranty work on headlamps before?
Are you able to get a better photo of the lower bumper?
Could be argued that if delamination has occured the water moisture that's got underneath the bumper will sit on the leading edge and wash away the paint.


The way Kia will look at this is;
At the time of being presented, external damage is evident. No evidence that the reported issue is completely unrelated to the 'external influence' and thus no warranty claim as it will be deemed that one has caused the other.

Don't know if you can get a better image of the lower bumper area?
May be worth popping the bonnet and examining in / around the headlamp assembly for 'over spray'
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Vehicle Car Grille Wheel Automotive lighting
Car Vehicle Grille Automotive lighting Automotive tire
Automotive parking light Tire Wheel Vehicle Car


Automotive parking light Grille Motor vehicle Automotive lighting Automotive tire

Thanks for you reply much appreciated .

I think some of the issues are from the photos, just to be clear the area is completely smooth, no dents no stone marks either , the bit on the photo must of been a bug mark or something. Attached some extra images from today so hopefully they help .

No warranty work on any of the car at all, still only done 4.5k.
The headlights was just a bit of dirt I think, I've given it a bit of a quick handclean but I have avoided cleaning that area as the paint just wants to chip off .
No overspray I can see inside , photo attached.
Some more photos of lower bumper too

Hope it helps

1 thing I want to add, generally I have about 4 or 5 stone chips around the car as a whole, so Ive either been mega unlucky but I feel the paint work isn't up to scratch to that of previous Cars, generally VW's I've had . Last car I had was a be Passat I did around 60k on it and the paint looked better on that then this car after 3k miles.

The garage who looked at were in Coventry called XL motors . I was advised to go there by Allen Kia who I brought the car from . I have to say they have shown no interest in helping me out , they just keep saying to speak to the xl motors . Tempted to put in a phone call to the manager at the dealers and see if they can help but I doubt it .
 

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I have no expert knowledge of car paint or repairs but it seems to me that at 9 months and 4.5k miles lamination of paint is an unlikely consequence of accident damage unless the damage is pretty obvious, which in this case it is not. Furthermore if there had been a respray it seems unlikely that delamination would be taking place after such a sort time even it had been done extremely badly.

I assume that you have owned this car from new, if so you know whether there has been any damage repaired or not so provided this is the case I think you need to take this matter in hand yourself. From what you have written this matter had been going on since at least April, it seems that you have taken your car to the dealer you bought it from, Allen Kia, they have asked XL Motors to look at it and Allen Kia have passed some sort of report to Kia who have taken the view that the delamination is caused by damage of one sort or another so they will not repair the damage under warranty and this is their final answer.

If you have legal cover under any of your insurance policies, house or car, I would contact them to discuss this issue. I'm sure they will give you some good impartial advice and my take on the case for you, if not you could also speak to Citizens Advice.

In my view, as Allen Kia and Kia have made their position clear I would suggest that your only way forward is to commission an independent report from an specialist, ideally I would suggest a Forensic Motor Engineer but you could also consider an automotive paint specialist. Either will do but its important that whoever you use they will be recognised by Kia so a report from your local paint shop probably wont have weight. Provided the report comes back saying that the paint or the way it was applied is at fault and that the delamination has not been caused by accident damage or stone chips, you can write to Allen Kia advising them that as this fault was on the vehicle when it was sold they are responsible for putting the matter right. Send the letter 'signed for' to the General Manager at Allen Kia and give him seven days to respond and inform him that you will be claiming the engineers report fee as well as the repair costs.

If you take this route I would first email the general manager at Allen Kia, ask him for a copy of the XL Motors report and advise him that you have taken legal advice and will be commissioning an independent specialist report which you will use to progress your claim through the small claims court. Depending on how confident he is with the report he has from XL Motors he will either contact Kia to get the work done under warranty or wait to hear from you.

Personally I think you have played Mr Nice guy long enough, the dealer knows that after 6 months he is no longer liable unless you can prove the fault was on the car from new and most people are not able or prepared to do what is needed to prove this. He has passed the issue to Kia who have taken the position that the delamination was caused by damage and presumably have a report that tells them this. I don't think either party will move from this unless you show them something compelling to change their minds.

I have no personal experience of Forensic Motor Engineers but I remember DWF https://dwfgroup.com/-/media/dwf-gl.../insurance/dwf-forensic-engineering.pdf?la=en being recommended on another forum, this link suggests that they charge £125+vat so it might be worth discussing the matter with them.

Best of luck (y)
 

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XL motors IIRC are the partnered body shop for Allen Kia so will be aware of warranty T&C's. Most franchise dealers will operate this model.

Based on the above info it appears this has only been looked at locally and I suspect warranty have had limited, if any, involvement. Each dealer has their own warranty administrator so could have been rejected at dealer level.

May I ask who it was you spoke to at Kia CS? It's likely they'll have spoken to Allen Kia and given their thoughts.

I'd probably suggest first of all, take a good few high Res images showing the current state and send them direct to Kia. If you have any previous photos for context to show the development of this concern then it builds a time line for them.

Passing through CS won't get this reviewed by warranty so one of two options:
  • go to the CEO (he will pass to a Customer Service Agent - High Level) who will more than likely involve Kia Warranty.
  • write into Kia head office and send copies of the High Res images for them to look at.

I used to work at the Kia CC and have dealt with many a CEO correspondence. The internal procedure for this case type is robust so it will certainly get looked at. I would suggest in that correspondence to lean on your previous purchase history (if any) as they can consider a goodwill type claim if warranty stand on the decline. I won't give my name for obvious reasons, don't want people finding out who I am 🤣
 

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To break up the post... My 2cents

- damage seen is 'too far gone' to accurately determine root cause of concern.

Both paint delamination through incorrect baking temps etc and delam that occurs through damage will show in exactly the same way.

Worth noting that 1000's of cars go through the exact same process as yours and failure rates on paint is extremely low. Cars in America are built in US/Mexico based on their laws so it is a different production facility

Assuming no fitting issues (headlamp clearence to bumper on the OSF) it will stand as a declined claim.

An independent engineer can 'endorse' as to what they believe the cause of failure is but Kia are not obligated to accept their findings.

Motor ombudsman will likely side with Kia and uphold the warranty terms based on the above information.

Given the age of the car I'd be hopeful the manufacturer agree to cover all (or a portion) of the cost as goodwill. That said they do not usually do goodwill for paint claims based on the nature of issue.
 

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Based on the above info it appears this has only been looked at locally and I suspect warranty have had limited, if any, involvement. Each dealer has their own warranty administrator so could have been rejected at dealer level.
My post above assumed that Kia CS had ruled out a warranty appeal - @phil750 said Kia UK customer service have just told me the decision is final and there is no way to appeal it

Agee with @KiaSP18 an email to Paul Philpott (email removed as not appropriate to post on public forum) might be worth a try but I think you will need to make a very strong case. Keep the emotion out of it and just present the facts, low mileage, 9 months old, well cared for, first noticed in April @ months old, absolutely no possibility of accident damage that is being suggested
 

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At least I know this case won't get forwarded to me by Paul 🤣

And yeah I wasn't sure on who may/has looked at it. In some instances CS will call dealer, confirm car has been on site, get dealer comments. Add to case file, check if anything further needed and feed back.

Assuming Allen Kia are a authorised franchise (they are) and have had relevant warranty training (they have) this may not have reached warranty if Allen Kia / CS have completed the case and closed off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
thanks both for your reply. XL motors have said they can send me what they sent Kia so lets see what they say but i have also written to the CEO and see if that helps.

Kia UK didnt mention anything about the dealer, the dealer is as next to useless, doesnt answer the phone or return my phone calls or emails.

KiaSP your info is great but doesnt leave with much confidence i have to say! Sounds to me like basically its, yer this could of been an accident, or it could be crap paint work, but both look they same so we are going to say its an accident so tough luck.

But i agree i am going to start to get nasty now without being rude, thinking some bad reviews and strongly worded emails will help!
 

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Sorry if it sounds dismissive in any way just trying to give a balanced account of my experience in dealing with cases / claims such as yours.

You're welcome to PM me, can open a dialogue and I'd be happy to help in any way that I can!
 

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But i agree i am going to start to get nasty now without being rude, thinking some bad reviews and strongly worded emails will help!
I don't think strongly worded emails or reviews will help very much and might make KCS dig their heals in, as @KiaSP18 says all that can be seen from the photo's is that the paint is delaminating, Kia are taking the view that they produce 1000's of cars and rarely/never see this sort of problem, your view is that you have bought a new car and as there has been no damage the only reason for it is bad manufacture or paint. What you need to do is move the goal posts towards your view point.

As said before you can try writing to the CEO explaining that you have always looked after the car, wash it every weekend, pride and joy, never been in contact with another vehicle etc and hope that KCS react to this and make a good will gesture. Or as already stated you get an expert to write a report saying that there is no evidence of accident damage or stone chips which leads him to believe that the delamination must be due to bad manufacture / paint.

Its true that Kia do not have to agree with your expert report but they will know that with this report you will take them to the small claims court so at best they have a 50/50 chance of winning so may at that stage be happy to fund the repair rather than have the hassle and cost of fighting it.

At the end of the day though how much would it cost to respray the front, if you can't persuade KCS to give you a good will gesture it might just be easier to pay for that to be done and not buy a Kia again :mad:
 
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