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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Right,

Having read a few threads with people mentioning that the ISG fails to restart, i decided to have a play around and see if i could get it to "fail" last night when i was in traffic.

I have driven quite a few hire cars with stop start including Vauxhalls, fords and Mercs so i am fairly well versed in using SS. I tend to roll to a stop in neutral to allow the car to stop as soon as it is able, so although we are only a few days into Rio ISG ownership it all feels fairly natural to use and the system feels no different to any other car with a similar system.

The only way i could reliably make it not start was, roll to a stop and the the system kick in, at this point with foot only on brake pedal or with the hand brake on, and the gear stick not in a gear, I found that if i moved the gear stick about, to the point that in only even partially engaged with a gear, it refused to start up again when i put my foot on the clutch, and i had to use the key.

Other than that icouldn'tfind a way of making it not start and itreliablystartedup again on the clutch pedal every time in possibly 20 attempts

What i can't seem to work out is how the Hill start assist control works.Vauxhalluse this feature and it works very well. It does make you a bit lazy as youDontneed to engage the handbrake on a hill stop as when you take your foot off the brake, as the car holds itself for a just long enough for you to get on the power and away you go. I expected the Rio to do the same, but it dosent appear to do so at all and always rolls backwards....every time.

Has anyone noticed this system actually working?
 

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Armac08 said:
Hi yes mine works great holds the car everytime,maybe get it checked.
Yes, same here. In forward and reverse.
However, after years of driving conventionally I doubt if I will ever start to rely on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Agreed not to be relied on, but if its meant to be there I would pike to know it works!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
vass177 said:
on my rio 2 it only works if im facing down hill

That cant be right......

Mine is working now, but it does appear to have be on a fair gradient before it kicks in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
thunderbird said:
Add to that you need to stop with a reasonable intent i.e. don't just roll to a halt and then put the brakes on, it does not work if you do that.

That explains why it "isnt working" for me then, i roll to a halt to get the ISG to engage.
 

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Hill start assist? Shame you didn't get the top of the range Rio, it has KAWAWA (Kia Arse WipeAnd Wash Assist). Whatever next?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
M4trundler said:
Hill start assist? Shame you didn't get the top of the range Rio, it has KAWAWA (Kia Arse WipeAnd Wash Assist). Whatever next?





 

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M4trundler said:
Hill start assist? Shame you didn't get the top of the range Rio, it has KAWAWA (Kia Arse WipeAnd Wash Assist). Whatever next?
Good one M4. Stuff all this ISG and TCS, ESP sh*te and lets get back to driving the car as a human and being in control of it manually. Bl**dy park assist on the new Focus too, ffs get a grip. More gizmos equals more money to buy the car. Drop all the cr*p and the motor would be a good few grand cheaper. See if you rely on this ISG, park assist and ESP then you should not be driving.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
[/QUOTE]
See if you rely on this ISG, park assist and ESP then you should not be driving.
[/QUOTE]



ISG - So stop start, all cars should have this to save fuel, we only have a finate amount of fossil fuels on the planet.



HSA - Hill start assist, agreed perhaps a step to far, but it will stop numpties from rolling back into the car behind, and when coupled with stop start, is more convienient than putting the hand brake on.



ESP - Electronic Stability Control. I am sorry but unless you are a racing driver (which i did used to dabble in) or have had alot of experience exploring both your limits as a driver and the limits of your car away from the public highway on a track, YOU CAN NOT REACTAS FAST AS ESP CANif you are about have an accident or if you loose control and the mahjority of people would not know what to do in the event of, for example serious over/understeer. This is if you are paying 100% attention to the road ahead. If you are messing about with your CD's/Phone/Chatting/telling the kids off in the back, you are therfore not devoting 100% of your brain to the task of driving.ESP saves lives end of.



Park Assist - Frankly most people on the roads are rubbish drivers. I firmly believe that probably 50% ofhumans are not mentally capable of undertaking the task of driving a car to the level which i would consider to be adequate (I know many people who fall into this group).If the choice is having one of these clowns attempting to paralell park adjacent to my car or a computer do it for them, i would prefer it if the software that has cost millions of dollars to develop is parking thier car for them, there is less danger of my car getting bumped!
 

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Boz most of the people on here would probably not drive to the stage that ESP would engage. I dont mean that in a bad way but its taking the skill if you want to call it out of driving. So we get to the stage that we rely on all these gizmos and so we dont learn the skills of car control if the situation arises that these electronic functions screw up.
The cars that they have these aids on are mostly underpowered and are used mostly for short commutes. I'm not bumming here but I have a bike that is not restricted and good for 195mph and has 208bhp and 2 wheels and gets to a 100mph in 4.8secs, yes a 100mph, and the only aid I have is a slipper clutch. I dont have traction control, I dont have ABS and I dont have ISG or HSA. Its down to having the skill to riding the bike on the road and staying upright and not being spread like jam on the roads.
Nowadays we are relying on electronic aids to help us drive a car NOT the way we were taught to do it in the car test. This is all wrong we should not rely on these things to get us about in our tin boxes. No way.






Edited by: davy
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Davy,

Having grown up driving small over powered, under tyre'd (by today's standards) cars that it was very easy to get to edge of adhesion in, I totally agree with you that we SHOULD'NT have to rely on driver aids, and that people SHOULD have to learn how to control a car on, or past the limit, and i agreethe Kia forum probablydosenthave a base of members that arelikelyto want to get to these limits.

The reality is though that now a days, there are very few cars that wont do 100MPHeasily, which was a challenge for me and my mates in the late 90's with our panda/uno/nova/fiesta's, that we had to scrape enough money together to buy and insure and couldeasilyhaveunder steeringin the wet all day long, where as now anyone can go out and buy a car for next to no money that willhappilyget to 120+ and where the limits are so much more difficult to get to and so lesslikelyto be experienced.

We now have a generation of people who have NO IDEA what over steer feels like, which i can quiteeasilyachieve in my 50BHP moggy on 135 cross ply's, and never had the experience of loosing the front of an Uno Turbo on over boost with a sticky carb and skinny tyres on a sharp corner on a back road theydidn'tknow...at night......when half asleep. Given that these people are never going to learn these skills as they will never get the opportunity, i really think that there is no option but to equip all cars with this technologypurelyfor the safety of everyone on the road.

On the subject of the Test, this is a pointless andantiquated exercise in teaching someone how to drive for 30 minutes on a given route to a set of rules that most people will notadhereto 3 mins after leaving said test centre with result pass, thedrivingtest certainly does not teach someone "how" to drive, merely how tooperatea car in its most basic format.

On the subject of Bikes, the last bike i owned was a '99 CBR600F, not as mental as what you ride, but i can appreciate your comments as itwasn'tslow, however in car terms this would be like asking someone you had only ever driven a Focus 1.6 LX to get in a Radical or an Ariel Atom and run a lap of acircuit, at speed, with no errors, which i think you and I knowisn'tpossible. I have driven an atom with the Type-R turbo engine and it was awesome, but my god was it difficult to keep in astraightline, and as an example, my wife, who i consider to have become a reasonable driver over the past 10 years and who i consider to have good spacialawareness, good onwards anticipation and generally be quite safe,wouldn'thave cats chance of driving one down the shops without spanking a lamp post.

It is unfortunate in some ways butthe car has become a "right" as a pose to an aspiration and as a result there are too many people ontheroads who really can not drive. I am happy that theseelectronicaids are in cars to keep ME safe, not them!
 

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Boz you have come up with a really good point and that is "I am happy that these electronic aids are in cars to keep ME safe, not them" A very good way of looking at it.
What really scares me is the visual awareness or lack of it by some drivers towards other road users, more so motorcycles. You would have been aware of this when you rode your CBR. What I have noticed is some drivers field of vision is very short and narrow and dont see hazards or things happening soon enough, and before they know it they're jumping on the brakes or swerving to avoid a collision and this sometimes leads to loss of control or impact. This is because they have not given themselves enough time to react or drive round the hazard by not looking far enough ahead.
When your on the bike visual awareness is a big thing as you know and is crutual to staying alive.
Electronic aids on cars are there as a back up and should not be relied upon. Educating drivers in car control and road awareness and accident prevention is worth more in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Never mind the motorbike, i got knocked off my push bike in January in broad daylight on a straight road with plenty of lights flashing away and a hi-vis cycling jacket on.

Idespairat thestandardof driving the UK today, it is getting worse every year particularly on the Motorways. I would loveanotherMotorbike, but i justwouldn'tfeel safe these days.

I cant ever see it getting any better unless we move to a system of periodic and strict re-testing, which is never going to happen, or.....slap me in the face for saying this......implementtargeted road charging, perhaps like in France that helps to keep people off the roads who really don't need or want to be on them.
 

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Boz, didn't you know? Putting on a hi-vis jacketwhen riding a bike makes you invisible! Weird isn't it? So many times I've had people pulling out of side roadsand nearly knocking me off.

I object to all this rubbish being put into cars to take away the skill of driving. It makes the car more expensive, heavierand more likely to go wrong, makes people lazy and fools people into a false sense of security that their toys will keep them safe. They will be tempted to push their cars to the limit at much higher speeds and do more dangerous things. When ABS was introduced, the number of accidents actually increased. Also, if you rely on these things, you're going to be in big trouble when you get into a car without such toys.
As for the hill start assist, I cannot see any point for it whatsoever. If you can't hill start a car, you fail your test, so you shouldn't be on the road if you can't do it.

As for ISG, it's a waste of time for this country. In other countries based on a grid system of traffic lights where you are likely to be stopped for a minute or more at a time, then it might make some sense. But here, more often than not, traffic jams tend to be go 10 m, stop a few seconds, go another 10 m etc etc. There is no time for ISG to operate. Then there is the reliability issue. More complexity = more to go wrong, plus more weight to have to lug around wasting fuel. In fact I see that Kia are taking ISG out of some of their newer cars and just relying on the simple fuel efficiency of the engine to keep emissions down.

The problem I can see is that the EU are going to insist on all this rubbish being put in our cars reducing us all to passengers.

Edited by: M4trundler
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
M4trundler said:
As for ISG, it's a waste of time for this country. In other countries based on a grid system of traffic lights where you are likely to be stopped for a minute or more at a time, then it might make some sense.


Have you been to Milton Keynes?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
No idea, but on my 7 mile drive to work, i consistently get between 2 and 4 moinutes of engine off in the 20 minute drive from stopping at junctions with Q's and Traffic lights, so i am at least getting 10% journey time with the engine off.
 
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