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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello Everyone,

I hope you are all well, during this strange time we are living through.

Some time ago several of you were kind enough to offer your help and advise regarding my Limp Mode issue, and I would be truly grateful if some of you would spare the time to offer more help and suggestions to try and resolve my current situation.

I have a 2006 Kia Sportage 2.0 Diesel XS

Following Limp Mode issues for some time, in July I called a mobile engine cleaning company. They turned up, and the guy ran diagnostics. Up to this point, I was plugging my reader in and getting 2 fault codes,
P2002 DPF pressure Bank 1
P1405 Manufacturers Control
His diagnosis was that the P1405 error code was in fact related to the EGR valve, and that was the cause of the P2002 DPF error.
He was able to bring up the DPF history, which showed it had been regenerating as it should.

He suggested that the solution was a Remap, and I reluctantly agreed.....The deed was done. There was also a 3 stage engine clean carried out.

However, it hasn't resolved the issue, the car is still dropping into Limp Mode, and possibly even more often than before.

The engine cleaning guy has abandoned ship, saying there obviously isn't a remap option for my vehicle, and there is no more he can do!!

The current situation is this......The car will drop into Limp Mode on relatively short journeys, less than 15 miles, but, if it is a a motorway, it will will run happily at 70MPH all day long. It is non motorway, stop start, gear changing driving that sets it off.
When it drops into Limp Mode, there are NO lights on the dashboard. To get an error code you have to stop the car, leave the engine running and plug the reader in, now only the P2002 DPF pressure bank 1 appears, the other one the P1405 supposedly the EGR valve error code no longer appears.
If you switch the car off, as soon as it is restarted, the error code has gone.
For example, on Thursday evening I was getting to end of a 15 mile journey home, and the car was in Limp Mode, I stopped to get a newspaper, came out 2 minutes later, and the car was fine again.

I love this car to bit's, but this Limp Mode issue is doing my head in!! I quite simply don't know where to start, and I could end up spending 100's and 100's of £'s chasing the problem, and as much as I love the car, it isn't worth that.

Is the fact that the problem clears after a couple of minutes of turning the car off, suggesting that this could be a sensor issue? Surely if there is a blockage it should be in permanent Limp Mode, with the engine management light on??

As I say, I would be forever grateful if anyone is willing to spare the time to share their knowledge and experience to help me understand what is going on, and solve this frustrating issue.

Many thanks, and take care everyone.

Regards,
Gordon Coles
 

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If u are spending money on no results and truly want to fix it, is it not worth taking it to a Kia garage? Sure they'll charge for it but will more than likely fix it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If u are spending money on no results and truly want to fix it, is it not worth taking it to a Kia garage? Sure they'll charge for it but will more than likely fix it.
I take your point. However, when I bought the car, I strongly believe it came with this issue. I am only the 2nd owner, and prior to my getting the vehicle, it had been serviced and repaired at a Kia main dealer all it's life. I am afraid I have a deep mistrust of main dealers, having had some bad experiences in the past. I honestly believe that they couldn't fix the problem, and the previous owner decided to get rid.
 

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What did he mean by a remap? What I understand is that it could alter the power or torque etc. Why that would cure your problem I don't know. If there's a dpf problem showing that could be a sensor faulty or the dpf is genuinely getting blocked, not surprising on a car of that age.
 

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I would think its not a sensor fault as it would happen all the time, its probally to do with the egr valve sticking. The sensor is seeing lower/ higher pressure than it is expecting. if you cant take to the dealer a good independant should be able to work out what is happening from the live data or you could take a punt and get them to clean/check the egr valve.
.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What did he mean by a remap? What I understand is that it could alter the power or torque etc. Why that would cure your problem I don't know. If there's a dpf problem showing that could be a sensor faulty or the dpf is genuinely getting blocked, not surprising on a car of that age.
Hi Malc,

Thanks for replying. The idea was to rewrite the software, so that if there was an EGR error, it wouldn't affect the car as it wouldn't register. A mystery to me? The DPF pressures were tested, and were fine.

Cheers,
Gordon
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I would think its not a sensor fault as it would happen all the time, its probally to do with the egr valve sticking. The sensor is seeing lower/ higher pressure than it is expecting. if you cant take to the dealer a good independant should be able to work out what is happening from the live data or you could take a punt and get them to clean/check the egr valve.
.
Hi,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I was thinking it could be an intermittent sensor fault? I have had the top off of the EGR valve, and it appears to be moving freely. I haven't taken the whole valve off yet though. I have a friendly mechanic who is going to come and take the EGR valve off and clean it for me, but I am not totally convinced that is the issue. In my experience taking the car to the main dealer would go something like this........I rock up and the car is fine, they put it on their testing machine, and find no error codes. Now I am paying £100 an hour, next they start to change things willy nilly, and I am paying manufacturers prices for all the parts. Very shortly and I have paid more than the car is worth, and probably still have the problem!!

Cheers,
Gordon
 

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Hi Gordon

This is not a subject that I have much experience of but just reading your post and the info others have given I have a couple of observations and questions.

The reason the Limp Home mode goes away when you switch off the car is probably because the condition that put the car into Limp mode was temporary and was reset when you switch the car off.

Intermittent DPF issues are very common and difficult to get solve without replacing expensive parts.

The fact that the DPF pressures were tested isn't conclusive because the problem is transitory, it could be that the pressures are wrong sometimes or the sensor may be reading them wrongly only some of the time.

You have said that the problem only occurs on short journeys, this raises some questions:

Is this always after starting from cold?
If so will it re-occur after switching off and re-starting?
Will it happen if you come off a long motorway journey and then tootle along some country lanes?
Is this happening after a number of short journeys?
Does it 'not' happen for a few days after a motorway journey?

I would be inclined to keep diary note of, how often the problem is occurring, every day, once a week/month, how long/far after starting is it happening, is it always after a cold start, if you stop straight away and restart does the fault go away and for how long, how many journeys after a motorway journey before the problem returns.

The reason I ask these questions is there are two probable reasons for this fault; first the DPF is actually partially clogged and needs cleaning, if the car has regularly been used for short journeys the regen cycle may not be able to clean it and the 'specialist' engine guy may not have cleaned it properly. In this scenario all is likely to be fine on a motorway as the DPF will have lots of hot gas going through it which will clean the DPF. Inversely it is short journeys that clog up the DPF so shortly after starting the DPF might just be tipped over the limit. The second option is that the sensor is not working correctly or just on the limit, on the motorway there will be lots of pressure and heat which might be the conditions where the sensor works well but short journeys with low revs and cold engine compartment just tip it into giving a false reading. Remember these are all just possibilities!

Other than taking it to another 'expert' such as Kia (and I understand your reluctance) or a specialist you probably have three options; use some DPF cleaner yourself and drive it for half and hour on the motorway in a low gear so the engine is revving at 3000 rpm, change the sensor or give up and accept the problem 🤣

Oh and there is always the EGR valve, you could always check and clean this
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi Gordon

This is not a subject that I have much experience of but just reading your post and the info others have given I have a couple of observations and questions.

The reason the Limp Home mode goes away when you switch off the car is probably because the condition that put the car into Limp mode was temporary and was reset when you switch the car off.

Intermittent DPF issues are very common and difficult to get solve without replacing expensive parts.

The fact that the DPF pressures were tested isn't conclusive because the problem is transitory, it could be that the pressures are wrong sometimes or the sensor may be reading them wrongly only some of the time.

You have said that the problem only occurs on short journeys, this raises some questions:

Is this always after starting from cold?
If so will it re-occur after switching off and re-starting?
Will it happen if you come off a long motorway journey and then tootle along some country lanes?
Is this happening after a number of short journeys?
Does it 'not' happen for a few days after a motorway journey?

I would be inclined to keep diary note of, how often the problem is occurring, every day, once a week/month, how long/far after starting is it happening, is it always after a cold start, if you stop straight away and restart does the fault go away and for how long, how many journeys after a motorway journey before the problem returns.

The reason I ask these questions is there are two probable reasons for this fault; first the DPF is actually partially clogged and needs cleaning, if the car has regularly been used for short journeys the regen cycle may not be able to clean it and the 'specialist' engine guy may not have cleaned it properly. In this scenario all is likely to be fine on a motorway as the DPF will have lots of hot gas going through it which will clean the DPF. Inversely it is short journeys that clog up the DPF so shortly after starting the DPF might just be tipped over the limit. The second option is that the sensor is not working correctly or just on the limit, on the motorway there will be lots of pressure and heat which might be the conditions where the sensor works well but short journeys with low revs and cold engine compartment just tip it into giving a false reading. Remember these are all just possibilities!

Other than taking it to another 'expert' such as Kia (and I understand your reluctance) or a specialist you probably have three options; use some DPF cleaner yourself and drive it for half and hour on the motorway in a low gear so the engine is revving at 3000 rpm, change the sensor or give up and accept the problem 🤣

Oh and there is always the EGR valve, you could always check and clean this
Hi,

Firstly I would like to thank for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply, I really do appreciate it.

To try and answer some of the points you raise.

Starting from cold.......The car is always fine when starting from cold. It appears to need approx 25 miles of driving, non motorway before going into limp mode.

Switching off seems to reset something and the car is fine again, but after another 25 miles off we go again.

Coming off the motorway and tootling is exactly what triggers limp mode.

No, it isn't happening after several short journeys, it will happen on any journey of 25 miles+

Yesterday was strange. I did a 25 mile journey, and arrived at my destination without limp mode being triggered. I left again soon afterwards, and drove another 25 miles or so, taking me into Canterbury, at which point limp mode came into play. After stopping for about 15 mins, I set off again and the car was fine. On the return journey limp mode dropped in again, BUT, this time the engine management light started flashing. I haven't seen that for a very long time.
I stopped half way again, and when restarting the car it was running fine, but the management light was still flashing. During the 25 journey home, the light went solid. After getting home, I went out again about an hour later, car still running fine, and light still on. I stopped for about 15 mins, and when setting off again, the light went out after starting the car. I have been out this morning, and did about 10 miles each way, and all is well.
It is totally bizarre, and very frustrating.
In 2017, soon after I bought the car, I drove to Cumbria from Kent. After driving through some absolutely atrocious weather, the engine management light came on. I don't know if the car was in limp mode or not, as I drove very carefully the last 100 miles of the journey, but I don't believe so, and then phoned the RAC. The diagnosis was DPF pressure fault, and the technician said he has altered the parameters?
In the early part of 2020 I had the management light on, it was during lockdown, and I put DPF cleaner in the tank and blasted the car for a 60 miles round trip down the motorway, 4th gear and high revs. During the first half of the journey the car was going in and out of limp mode, and the flashing light went solid. After coming off the motorway to turn around, the car dropped into limp mode, and stayed there for the 30 mile trip home. I pulled up outside my garage, turned the car off, opened the garage door, got back in the car, started it, and the management light went out, and the car was running fine.
It could be that a good professional clean of the DPF could be the answer. Meanwhile I struggle to understand the relationship between the EGR valve and the DPF? I understand what the EGR does, but I don't understand it's relationship with the DPF, and how it can effect it?

Thanks again, all the best.

Cheers,
Gordon
 

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if the egr valve jams or is partially blocked it can effect the air/fuel ratio going into the engine or cause unburnt fuel to go down the exhaust, the result is the gases presented to the dpf are not what the dpf is expecting. this can cause the dpf to work incorrectly. the dpf sensors measure pressure either side of the filter. if there is a loss of pressure on in side of the dpf ie egr stuck open the pressure on the outside will be lower than expected causing the maneagement light to come on. if there is unburnt fuel in the exhaust because the egr valve is stuck open this may cause the dpf to block again causing a difference in pressure. most things in the engine maneagement are linked, you can get a fault the fault code generated may not be the actual fault but the result of the fault !
 

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Hi,

Firstly I would like to thank for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply, I really do appreciate it.

To try and answer some of the points you raise.

Starting from cold.......The car is always fine when starting from cold. It appears to need approx 25 miles of driving, non motorway before going into limp mode.

Switching off seems to reset something and the car is fine again, but after another 25 miles off we go again.

Coming off the motorway and tootling is exactly what triggers limp mode.

No, it isn't happening after several short journeys, it will happen on any journey of 25 miles+

Yesterday was strange. I did a 25 mile journey, and arrived at my destination without limp mode being triggered. I left again soon afterwards, and drove another 25 miles or so, taking me into Canterbury, at which point limp mode came into play. After stopping for about 15 mins, I set off again and the car was fine. On the return journey limp mode dropped in again, BUT, this time the engine management light started flashing. I haven't seen that for a very long time.
I stopped half way again, and when restarting the car it was running fine, but the management light was still flashing. During the 25 journey home, the light went solid. After getting home, I went out again about an hour later, car still running fine, and light still on. I stopped for about 15 mins, and when setting off again, the light went out after starting the car. I have been out this morning, and did about 10 miles each way, and all is well.
It is totally bizarre, and very frustrating.
In 2017, soon after I bought the car, I drove to Cumbria from Kent. After driving through some absolutely atrocious weather, the engine management light came on. I don't know if the car was in limp mode or not, as I drove very carefully the last 100 miles of the journey, but I don't believe so, and then phoned the RAC. The diagnosis was DPF pressure fault, and the technician said he has altered the parameters?
In the early part of 2020 I had the management light on, it was during lockdown, and I put DPF cleaner in the tank and blasted the car for a 60 miles round trip down the motorway, 4th gear and high revs. During the first half of the journey the car was going in and out of limp mode, and the flashing light went solid. After coming off the motorway to turn around, the car dropped into limp mode, and stayed there for the 30 mile trip home. I pulled up outside my garage, turned the car off, opened the garage door, got back in the car, started it, and the management light went out, and the car was running fine.
It could be that a good professional clean of the DPF could be the answer. Meanwhile I struggle to understand the relationship between the EGR valve and the DPF? I understand what the EGR does, but I don't understand it's relationship with the DPF, and how it can effect it?

Thanks again, all the best.

Cheers,
Gordon
Thanks for that but I don't think we are any closer to working out which component is at fault sadly. The reason the fault light goes out when you stop and start the engine is that many of the engine faults are transitory but when they happen they set the engine light and put the engine into limp mode if necessary but these are reset when you switch off/on again. What does seem to be the case though is its 25+ miles of gentle driving that brings on the fault even if the car has been on the motorway.

The cheap things you can try are call the RAC again to see what fault codes he comes up with and if he can see when and how often the regen is being activated, if its too often it could point to the EGR being faulty or the DPF not being fully cleaned 😭 but he might give some more up to date advice. Or try a can of EGR and DPF cleaners, try one at a time to see if it makes any difference and for how long. Other than that unless you take it to a specialist you will be into substitution, some of the Sportage EGR valves look simple to get off and test but others (probably yours :rolleyes:) look a bit complicated, but if your diy skill are up to it you could take it off, clean it up and test it and there are second hand ones on ebay. You can get DPF for about £200 and the valve probably £100 but I'm not sure which ones you need.

As @noublue has said the EGR & DPF are intrinsically linked so if the above fails to resolve the problem you may need to visit a specialist but if you can I would check their credentials and make it clear you are not prepared for a bottomless pit situation!

Other than that I afraid I'm out of ideas 😩 sorry
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
if the egr valve jams or is partially blocked it can effect the air/fuel ratio going into the engine or cause unburnt fuel to go down the exhaust, the result is the gases presented to the dpf are not what the dpf is expecting. this can cause the dpf to work incorrectly. the dpf sensors measure pressure either side of the filter. if there is a loss of pressure on in side of the dpf ie egr stuck open the pressure on the outside will be lower than expected causing the maneagement light to come on. if there is unburnt fuel in the exhaust because the egr valve is stuck open this may cause the dpf to block again causing a difference in pressure. most things in the engine maneagement are linked, you can get a fault the fault code generated may not be the actual fault but the result of the fault !
Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it. As I said earlier, the car tends to go into limp mode with no warning lights coming on. That said, last week I set off to Leysdown, a trip of 25 miles from my house. I arrived and the car was fine. From there I went to Canterbury, probably 25 miles or so again. On arrival in Canterbury the car dropped into limp mode. I was parked for about 20 mins and when setting off again the car was fine. On the journey back to Leysdown the management light started to flash, and the car went into limp mode. I parked up at leysdown for about 20 mins, and on setting off again the management light was still flashing, but the car was running fine. On the 25 mile journey home, the management light went solid, but the car continued to run fine all the way home. I went out again about an hour later, and once again the car was running fine, but the management light was still solid. I stopped briefly, about 5 mins, and when starting the car again the management light went out and all was well again. Last weekend I went on an 80 mile journey, soon after leaving the motorways and encountering roundabouts etc, the car went into limp mode, in exactly the same place it had done it before on the same journey, a steep uphill exit from a roundabout. I pulled over for 2 mins, and when setting off again all was well. I completed the journey without further incident, and in fact had a problem free return journey as well.
It is a total mystery to me, but then it would be, I am totally unqualified. I am up for having a go myself, and I have a friend who is a mechanic to help me, but don't know where to start. I certainly can't afford specialist or main dealer prices! I think I will start by attempting to get the EGR valve off and have a look at that, and then go from there.

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers,
Gordon
 
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