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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

My dad just got a MY 2022 Kia Picanto 2 Automatic. It's a lovely little car and he's very happy with it, bar one issue - reversing onto the driveway.

The car is fine on the road and in car parks etc. However, our driveway is at a right-angle to the road - which is single track - is steep for the first three metres, before flattening out. It's also a dirt and gravel slope so traction can be an issue. To get on the driveway, you drive past it a little ways, then reverse to the right to get in, it is quite tight, literally 90 degrees. The road is only a little wider than the car.

All other cars my dad has had - all front wheel drive, like the Picanto - have reversed up here with no issues at all. My Mercedes, rear wheel drive, does slip a bit due to the weight shift, but makes it up there just fine.

However, my dad's Picanto seems to "bog down" requiring FAR more rpm than seems appropriate. It grips just fine - no slipping I can detect - but needs lots of revs before it will even move. Once it's past the three metres of gravel on to the flat, paved area it then wants to shoot backwards due to the high rpm needed to get up the slope. My Mercedes is the same, it needs more revs as the car "thinks" it's going to slip - it does a bit - and being a bit more firm on the throttle, or changing the gearbox mode to Sport, sees it get up there just fine.

I thought at first that this might simply be the car's traction control being a little over-intrusive, like my Mercedes. I.e. "I think you're going to slip, so I'll reign in the power" as that's exactly what it seems to be doing. Requiring a firmer throttle press before it'll even try to move backwards. However, we just did a test turning Traction control OFF and repeating the manoeuvre. Same issue.

It's odd really as, at all times, the car has excellent grip on this surface, there was no trace of any slipping. Sure, my Merc slips a bit, but then it's rear wheel drive so the weight balance is off due to the steep slope. No, the Picanto grips great, but the car simply will not move unless excessive revs are given, it then wants to suddenly shoot back fast once it's mostly up the slope, needing to be caught on the brake. It's not elegant at all, plus there's a distinct clutch smell after the manoeuvre.

I was wondering if any other owners experience this? It's a bit worrying for my dad that the car rev's A LOT but barely moves, then shoot backwards like it does. The dealer seems to be listening and has actually agreed to come to the house to check it out. They could of course not re-create the issue testing reversing up their smooth, internal dry concrete car park ramps.

In summary, the car certainly seems to have issue with this specific manoeuvre. I really thought turning Traction / Stability Control off - the button by the driver's right knee - would sort it. However, it has not. Here's the sequence of events when parking, for clarity.

- Road is narrow, single track and a very slight incline.
- Approach Driveway (on right) and go a little past it.
- Stop, and engage reverse, quite a lot of right lock required.
- Rear of car starts going up the slope just fine, front wheels still on road.
- Front wheels start going up the drive, power drops off, car stops moving despite consistent throttle input.
- Additional rpm given, as reasonable amount, car does not move.
- Even more rpm given and car starts to move again, albeit slowly.
- Rear wheels are now on the flat and the front wheels are nearing it.
- Car wants to suddenly shoot backwards and needs to be caught on the brake.

It appears that once the car is past a certain threshold, whatever was holding it back - despite the high rpm - is suddenly removed. I fully suspect that some software system is looking at the steering angle, the steepness of the slope and, perhaps, able to detect it's gravel to reign in the power. However, it's getting it wrong / is overly sensitive / does not appear to be part of what the Traction Control button can turn off.

Sorry for the long first post, I wanted to be as clear as possible regarding this likely obscure issue. Any advice welcome.
 

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Hi & Welcome.

Should be able to do that without touching throttle as FI will kick in anti stall.

So start off on the flat road. Get clutch full up & then start turning with foot of accelerator.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi & Welcome.

Should be able to do that without touching throttle as FI will kick in anti stall.

So start off on the flat road. Get clutch full up & then start turning with foot of accelerator.
Thanks.

I don't know what FI is, sorry, not up on Kia acronyms yet. However, the car will not move at all with no throttle input, it just stops. Car DID stall the other day when trying to get up the drive without revving it quite so hard. We can initially roll back, getting one rear wheel on the start of the drive slope, then the second wheel, but will not move much further once the rear wheels - particularly the right one - is much higher than the front. It then required excessive throttle input before it would even budge further. Even with TC Off, the car doesn't like something about the position its in. It's a combination of quite a lot of right-lock, rear right of car higher than rear left, front of car lower still etc. The car is effectively twisted over multiple axis and far from flat.

What we did just test - I actually just came inside after testing it - was to re-shape the slope of the driveway a little, to make the initial angle a little less harsh, but the rest about the same. This has reduced, albeit only slightly the angle the car tips (to the front and left) when initially reversing. This, combined with TC Off sees the car need FAR fewer revs to move.

I think we had the perfect storm of factors, totally freaking out the car even with TC off. I suspect, like with my Merc, TC Off isn't really off, but more "TC Light" in that it will still cut in. The much shorter wheel-base likely didn't help.

It is quite interesting to observe how a car sees and responds to what it likely quite an unusual position to be in. When I first go the Merc - quite a while ago now - we re-shaped the drive a little back then too, to aid it reversing up. It was the first car in the family that struggled with it, the Kia is the second.
 

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FI = Fuel Injection.

You should be able to get the car to move with no throttle input at all, just be slow releasing the clutch. Can do that on daughters Picanto all the way through the box.
If it's stalling, wonder is the brakes are not releasing fully. Hence the need for more revs.

TC should make no difference. Unless one of the front wheels is lifting & starting to spin. It does not factor in angle of car, only how the front wheels are matching speed wise.
I wonder if the inside front wheel is lifting enough to slightly lose traction, as the rear wheel starts to go up the slope.
 

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I think an 2022 Picanto Automatic is actually an AMT. (automated manual transmission) Maybe it just takes time for the driver to get use to the system? When we first had our Sportage with a DCT transmission, it also seemed reluctant to move in reverse. :unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ah, fuel injection, I'm with you now lol.

Well, being an auto it's up to the car how it uses the clutch. It could be a quirk of the new gearbox on this model year. It is actually a manual to all intents and purposes, however, it's electronically operated. Quite clever really as it means it's quite a light 'box, without the added weight a more traditional auto equipped with a torque converter etc. might have.

I know the Merc takes into account steering angle and, if beyond a certain degree, will adjust throttle sensitivity slightly. This can be experienced when pulling out of a tight junction for example. I don't understand the Kia system yet, but I full expect steering input, angle the car is at etc. are all factors.

Regardless, the combination of turning TC Off along with the slight tweak to the driveway its self, the car appears to be coping ok now. I think the initial slope freaked it out, now that's slightly lower, the car appears to be fine.
 

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Having had nothing but Kia and Hyundai automatics for last 20 years I cannot understand what is happening. Have you tried driving in forwards and then does the same happen.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Having had nothing but Kia and Hyundai automatics for last 20 years I cannot understand what is happening. Have you tried driving in forwards and then does the same happen.
It happened consistently at the same point on the driveway slope, only changing the slope slightly, combined with TC Off has helped. I'm convinced the car was getting confused due how it was tilted etc.
 

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Out of curiousity and obviously only attempt when safe to do so.
What happens if you go in forwards?
It sounds like a tilt sensor of some sort is getting confused or possibly hill start assist is confused (normally fitted on autos to stop roll back on a slope)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Being AMT auto the only thing that will allow the engine to rev up in the circumstances you describe is a slipping clutch. The load on level is probably ok got the clutch to grip. Get it back to the dealer.
I think it might be worth having them check it, just in case, the car isn't quite a week old yet!

OK. I missed the automatic 馃う鈥嶁檪锔
So a lot of what I posted is pointless.
Sorry..
No worries :)

Out of curiousity and obviously only attempt when safe to do so.
What happens if you go in forwards?
It sounds like a tilt sensor of some sort is getting confused or possibly hill start assist is confused (normally fitted on autos to stop roll back on a slope)
Not tried it, always reverse park here, will give it a go though.

Yes, something is getting upset by this particular situation. Still it is better since tweaking the driveway a little. Hopefully it'll not be a problem from now on, but will keep an eye on things of course.
 

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The connection between engine and wheels through the gearbox is fixed. An AMT auto is like a manual car without a clutch pedal. The clutch is electronic control. If you are on a hill and the wheels are not spinning then it has to be the clutch that is slipping. It may be some kind of tilt sensor that is causing the slip but more likely to simply be the clutch plate that is faulty or has some oil or grease on it. Dealers problem!
I think it might be worth having them check it, just in case, the car isn't quite a week old yet!



No worries :)



Not tried it, always reverse park here, will give it a go though.

Yes, something is getting upset by this particular situation. Still it is better since tweaking the driveway a little. Hopefully it'll not be a problem from now on, but will keep an eye on things of course.
try putting the car in drive wit one foot on the brake and see if you can rev the engine with the accelerator pedal. That should show up clutch slip. Take care though.
 

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The connection between engine and wheels through the gearbox is fixed. An AMT auto is like a manual car without a clutch pedal. The clutch is electronic control. If you are on a hill and the wheels are not spinning then it has to be the clutch that is slipping. It may be some kind of tilt sensor that is causing the slip but more likely to simply be the clutch plate that is faulty or has some oil or grease on it. Dealers problem!

try putting the car in drive wit one foot on the brake and see if you can rev the engine with the accelerator pedal. That should show up clutch slip. Take care though.
Isn't DCT just a sophisticated CVT? CVT's are notorious for not wanting to reverse up a gradient.
it is not DCT or CVT. It is AMT (Automated Manual Transmission) behaves like a manual without a clutch pedal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
try putting the car in drive wit one foot on the brake and see if you can rev the engine with the accelerator pedal. That should show up clutch slip. Take care though.
When he was reversing up the drive and needing to use excessive revs in order to move, there was a distinct clutch-burning smell. So, the clutch was working hard. Under normal driving conditions, it's been totally fine. I certainly think it's worth them (the dealer) having a look at it. The car is just a week old, as of tomorrow.
 

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You know what they say: a pucture speaks a thousand words. And a video is worth a million pictures.
So how about you take one or the other, or both, and post on here?
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You know what they say: a pucture speaks a thousand words. And a video is worth a million pictures.
So how about you take one or the other, or both, and post on here?
My hope is that the tweaks to the driveway have resolved the issue, but I'll certainly take a (very low-quality, sorry) video of the issue. I will say though, I suspect the steepness / angle of the drive isn't quite so clear in a picture / video as it would be in person of course.
 

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Four videos, from the four angles, even low quality (I guess you must have not upgraded your phone in a few years... ;-) ) will still give everyone a better idea.
If you take a video of your foot work while manouvering, I am pretty certain you'll get this sorted in no time at all. :)
 
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