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Sid Rumpo said:
My Mazda 6 had the system where the click and the internal indicator flasher (or flasher indicator?) both went at double speed if there was a problem.


Was that when towing or solo? Your indicators are designed to speed up rapidly when one or more bulbs on the towing vehicle has ceased to work. Same thing goes for virtually any vehicle
 

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Whichever system that you have - if it warns you of a bulb failure whether when buzzing or not is immaterial. The point is that's it's legal and works. I am quite easy with whichever system as long as I dont have a 21 watt green warning light flashing in my face when towing, turning off the M6 onto the M1 at 02.00 hrs blinding me for the grand entry onto the southbound three laned race track
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Ball and chain has informed me that the beeping is now upsetting her two wee dogs in the back and whydon'tI change the noise to some something more calming that the dogs like. All her last cars had this fitted as standard seemingly
 

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No sound from mine when towing, witter detachable bar with kia electrics and kia suppementary wiring kit all fitted by kia dealer (not sub contracted ), but haven't had any blown bulbs yet
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
""<strong style="font-size: 14px; ">EC R-48 Lighting & Lighting Devices 1981""�[/b]
"6.5.8
Tell-tale Operating tell-tale mandatory for front and rear direction indicator lamps. It may be visual or auditory or both. If it is visual it shall be a flashing light which, at leastin the event of the malfunction of any of the front or rear direction indicator lamps, is either extinguished, or remains alight without flashing, or shows a marked change of frequency (double speed flash). If it is entirely auditory it shall be clearly audible and shall show a marked change of frequency, at least in the event of the malfunction of any one of the direction indicator lamps.
If a motor vehicle is equipped to draw a trailer, it must be fitted with a special visual operational tell-tale for the direction indicator lamps on the trailer unless the tell-tale of the drawing vehicle allows the failure of any one of the direction indicator lamps on the vehicle combination thus formed to be detected.""�
The first part of paragraph 6.5.8, details the requirements for general vehicle indicator monitoring. It is the second half which sets the requirements for monitoring the trailer flashers. The UNECE R-48 law states that if a vehicle is equipped to draw a trailer, it must be fitted with a special visual tell-tale to monitor the trailer indicators. This can be either a separate lamp which can be installed in the dash, or the use of a built-in lamp fitted in the dash display. There is no mention of an audible monitor. However, UK local law allows an audible deviceto be accepted, PROVIDED IT OPERATESIN ACCORDANCE WITH R-48 REGULATION!Secondly, the separatevisual tell-tale is to be fitted UNLESS the vehicle is able to monitor the trailer indicators using it's own direction indicator tell-tales. The final, most important requirement is that the tell-tale system MUST monitor failure of all or any of the indicators on the car/trailer combination. This means the driver has to be informed of any failure of both the car and trailer indicators! The standard rear buzzer installation will NOT do this."What about the UK Construction & Use regulations 1986?"Below is an extract from the C&U regulations for the UK, which covers the requirements of tell-tales for indicators. Paragraph 11 stresses that the tell-tale is not specifically visual, so audible monitoring is quite acceptable, but it still needs to monitor ALL the indicators. You will notice also in paragraph 12 that there is still the requirement for the driver to be aware of failure of any of the indicators from the towing vehicle or the trailer:"11. Tell-tale- (a) One or more indicators on each side of a vehicle to which indicators are fitted shall be so designed and fitted that the driver when in his seat can readily be aware when it is in operation; or (b) The vehicle shall be equipped with an operational tell-tale for front and rear indicators (including any rear indicator on the rearmost of any trailers drawn by the vehicle).12. Other requirements- (a) Every indicator (other than a semaphore arm, that is an indicator in the form of an illuminated sign which when in operation temporarily alters the outline of the vehicle to the extent of at least 150 mm measured horizontally and is visible from both the front and rear of the vehicle) shall when in operation show a light which flashes constantly at the rate of not less than 60 nor more than 120 flashes per minute. However, in the event of a failure, other than a short-circuit of an indicator, any other indicator on the same side of the vehicle or combination of vehicles may continue to flash, but the rate may be less than 60 or more than 120 flashes per minute. Every indicator shall when in operation perform efficiently regardless of the speed of the vehicle. (b) Where two front or rear direction indicators are fitted to a motor vehicle first used on or after 1st April 1986, and two rear direction indicators are fitted to a trailer manufactured on or after 1st October 1985, in each case they shall be fitted so as to form a pair. (c) A rear direction indicator on each side of a vehicle shall not be fitted on a boot lid or other movable part of the vehicle."Extract from: Statutory Instrument 1989 No. 1796 The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 - Schedule 7 part 1: Para 11 & 12The design of the rear mounted buzzerThey are designed to be joined in ""series""� onto the vehicle's indicator lamp circuit. Principally then, when the trailer plug is pushed into the towing socket and an earth circuit is made, with the direction indicator operating on the vehicle, a signal is passed through the buzzer unit, and the buzzer will sound in unison with the flash rate of the vehicle. If the bulb fails on the trailer, the circuit is broken, and the buzzer will stop sounding. The installation of this device is simple and they can be purchased very cheaply.
The rear mounted buzzer - why they do not conform.Most vehicles will have a flasher system designed to control 2x 21w + 1x 5w per side, with a constant flash rate. This is either with a flasher unit or with a frequency control unit incorporated into the central electrics. The vehicle is designed in principal to 'count' the number of bulbs per side, and report a fault if the resistance drops below a minimum preset threshold, meaning a bulb has blown. When a trailer is connected, and a rear mounted buzzer is fitted, the vehicle will now 'count' 4 bulbs per side, and the resistance of the circuit will have risen. The buzzer will operate as usual, but should a front flasher bulb fail on the vehicle, the vehicle reverts back to counting the resistance of 3 bulbs (the side repeater, the rear on the vehicle, and the trailer bulb). This means the resistance does not drop below the lower threshold level and therefore there is no change in the flash rate cycle. The driver WILL NOT be informed of this failure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
So thats all quite clear now
then.
 

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The final, most important requirement is that the tell-tale system MUST monitor failure of all or any of the indicators on the car/trailer combination. This means the driver has to be informed of any failure of both the car and trailer indicators! The standard rear buzzer installation will NOT do this.
<div style="text-align: left;">I'm not sure why it can't. If a car indicator bulb fails, the remaining bulbs will flash at twice the rate. If a trailer bulb fails the buzzer will sound, as on our car, or will stop sounding, as on everyone else's.
<div style="text-align: left;">

<div style="text-align: left;">I wonder if that piece was written before the use of bypass relays was the norm on modern cars.


Edited by: Techno
 
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