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Discussion Starter #1
I been looking around this forum for people with the same
issue that I am having, and it appears some are having similar but not the same
issue.

It started with my car shuddering when the ISG kicked in, it
didn't sound good so I took it in and they checked my battery and said the
charge was low etc, I had also been having the issue that others are having
that it doesn't always work.

They charged it overnight and it all worked well again for a
few days ago and then the ISG stopped working again.

It appears that if I don't use the car for a day or so that
the battery drains enough to stop the system working, however, if I use it
normally (I have a 60 day round trip commute) then it takes a day or so of
doing that they works fine.

I dropped it into my garage last week and they tested the
battery again and again the charge was low. However, they did say that if it
does turn out to be the battery that this isn't covered by the warranty.

Over the weekend I did some digging and my car is still
under 2 years old so that battery is supposedly covered. I am taking it in to
them again tomorrow so I called today to check times and mentioned the warranty
and the lady said ""it depends if its wear and tear!!""�.

I cant see what ""wear and tear""� could cause the battery to
do this, unless I didn't drive it for 6 months etc (which I haven't). I guess
it could also be the alternator etc.

Has anyone else had this with their battery dying in a short
time? Also, how much of an argument will I have over the battery warranty?

PS I have a 2015 Cee'd 4 Diesel
 

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I have a Cee'd Fourtech (2013) model, which I purchased from a main dealer in June 2016. My ISG never worked from day 1, & they they kept fobbing me off with the usual response - Battery charge low, not doing enough mileage, not meeting ISG parameters etc. They would keep the car overnight & charge battery & all was well for a couple of days & then ISG would stop working again. After I persisted that there appeared to be a fault somewhere, they came to the conclusion that the battery wasn't holding its charge & replaced it at a cost to me of £198. Again all was well for a few days & then ISG stopped working again. Back to the workshop overnight & they concluded the new battery was duff (really?) & replaced it under warranty. All was OK for about 3 months (I drove to Spain & back during this time & ISG worked perfectly). I am now back in UK & within a few days ISG stopped working again & now they have replaced battery for the THIRD time (no charge to me).I really cannot believe that 2 replacement batteries are faulty & I believe the fault lies elsewhere, namely either:- 1) the alternator and/or associated charging circuitry is faulty so that the battery never reaches the minimum of 75% charge level. 2) The parameters that determine whether ISG is capable of being deployed are so sensitive that the slightest departure from the norm, whether it is things like aircon being on or audio volume set to high or a fly buzzing around the cockpit, completely upsets the algorithm.
So far nearly 3 weeks since latest battery change & ISG is still working (by & large), although it still sometimes refuses to deploy whenever the mood takes it & without any logical reason!
 

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The clue is in your journey types.

Spain and back involves few gear changes and pretty constant throttle opening. This is ideal and the isg "rewards" by being operational more often.

Normal journeys (in UK) probably require much greater use of the gearbox and acceleration with a corresponding greater production of exhaust pollutants. This is not ideal for the isg and so it deactivates more frequently. By deactivating it is protecting the battery from having to crank the engine at frequent intervals.

My isg rarely operates in the winter mainly due to too many short trips, whereas in the summer it kicks in much more often as we make longer journeys even with the a/c on most of the time.

There is an excellent post by ThomasDK on this forum which explains the wheres and whyfors of the isg system. I'd recommend you search it out.
 

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DAVE1978. I spent 3 months in Spain & apart from the journeys there & back I had to contend with the daily congestion in such towns as Barcelona, Alicante, Murcia etc. the ISG (with new battery fitted) performed almost faultlessly.Only since returning to the UK has it started to misbehave again, so is the weather a clue? Lower ambient temperature, generally more damp?
There is clearly a flaw in the Kia/Hyundai ISG system (witness the number of posts on this forum & others). My wife's car is a Skoda Citigo & the Stop & Go system on that car performs faultlessly & my previous car was a BMW 520D & its Stop & Go system for the better part also was more dependable than my Cee'd!
The system seems so fickle, especially in terms of battery condition & if you you have to keep replacing the battery every 2 years at a cost of ~£200, then any savings made by way of fuel economy are wiped out!
If it wasn't for the Excise Duty savings, ISG wouldn't be worth the effort. Pity you can't turn it off (permanently I mean)
 

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You don't have to keep replacing the battery.

My ISG doesn't work but I couldn't care less. Battery still starts the car absolutely fine so will not be replaced until it fails to do that.
 

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kiaweare said:
]If it wasn't for the Excise Duty savings, ISG wouldn't be worth the effort. Pity you can't turn it off (permanently I mean)
Don't forget the notional reduction in exhaust emissions.
 

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Sheets. Yes I know that there is no NEED to replace the battery; even my original one which the Kia dealer said was faulty still had plenty of cranking power. It does seem however, if you want to have any chance with ISG, then regular replacement is required.
The reason for my post was to highlight the apparent defective design. What is the point of ISG that is so fickle & has a mind of its own?
It was obviously intended only to circumvent the laws concerning the level of Excise Duty & apart from that serves no useful purpose. In fact it's a pain in the a*se!Edited by: kiaweare
 

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kiaweare said:
The reason for my post was to highlight the apparent defective design. What is the point of ISG that is so fickle & has a mind of its own?
It was obviously intended only to circumvent the laws concerning the level of Excise Duty & apart from that serves no useful purpose. In fact it's a pain in the a*se!
The ONLY reason for it is to get the cars into lower road tax brackets IMHO. (therefore increasing sales)

There is no useful point or purpose to it, as you accept I think? So why worry about it?
It works or it doesnt, so what? It doesn't affect my usage or enjoyment of my car in any way.
Kia are (hopefully) aware its not a brilliant system but they ain't going to do anything for cars that are already built. Nor would I want them to.
 

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Maybe because I'm a perfectionist? I expect an international manufacturer such as Kia to take responsibility for their imperfections & rectify them accordingly. Incidentally I spent several months in Seoul at the Samsung factory, liaising with them on a quality issue. One thing I learned, - NEVER expect a Korean to apologize or admit that they are wrong. They are far too proud a nation to do that!
And hey! I'm not really that bothered. If it irks me that much, I'll get rid & go back to German technology,- at least they are prepared to admit they got it wrong! (VAG group)
 

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kiaweare said:
Maybe because I'm a perfectionist? I expect an international manufacturer such as Kia to take responsibility for their imperfections & rectify them accordingly. Incidentally I spent several months in Seoul at the Samsung factory, liaising with them on a quality issue. One thing I learned, - NEVER expect a Korean to apologize or admit that they are wrong. They are far too proud a nation to do that!
And hey! I'm not really that bothered. If it irks me that much, I'll get rid & go back to German technology,- at least they are prepared to admit they got it wrong! (VAG group)
While you were at Samsung did you sleep a lot or just completely miss the Note 7 battery year long apology. I take it you missed the press conferences, TV adverts and press releases offering unreserved apologies.


I think you'll find many a VAG owner wishing they had only an ISG design issue than the emission fix that has now ruined their cars. Maybe take a look at a VAG or Merc forum (current recall over safety of air bags plus millions of cars due to have an emissions fix) to see the complaints or Honest John's forum.

I think as has already been pointed out proportionality is needed. Enjoy the car and forget the ISG or if you can't sell and buy a used VAG after the emission fix
Edited by: monkeygibber
 

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Direct Link To This Post ThomasDK 09 Sep 2014 at 6:16pm Quote ThomasDK Quote Post Reply Reply
Just had a look around Kia's Danish website. In this link (you will probably not understand it, it's in Danish :)):
http://www.kia.com/dk/content/faq/ecodynamics/ideen-bag-start-stop/
they explain the idea behind the ISG system. I have not been able to find a similar explanation on other Kia sites. - here's my shortened translation:

----
"The idea behind the Start/Stop system is that the system is active only by CO2 (Carbon) neutral energy.

When the A Off lamp is on, it means that the battery charge level is on standard/normal and start/stop is deactivated.
When A Off lamp is not on, it means that enough extra power has been "earned" and charged to the battery and start/stop is active.

Start/stop is active when a surplus of power has been build up. Building up (or earning) a surplus of power is achieved during deacceleration. During deacceleration no fuel is being supplied to the engine (fuel cut) which means that the weight of the car is turning the engine around and hence also the generator and thereby charging the battery with extra, CO2 neutral power.
When deaccelerating it is important that the car is kept in gear and the foot is off the clutch pedal.

(...)

When driving, the generator only generates exactly the amount of power being used so that fuel consumption and CO2 emissions can be kept at a minimum."
----

So ISG is not meant to function all the time, only when enough CO2 neutral power by deaccelerating has been charged to the battery.
And of course when all the other requirements are met. They are explained here:
http://www.kia.co.uk/about-kia/faqs.aspx?bid={75e9ecc3-43b2-4480-b823-b900c7592ee5} (click on "how does the intelligent stop & go work on my car).

Edited by ThomasDK - 09 Sep 2014 at 6:18pm
 

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kiaweare said:
I'll get rid & go back to German technology,- at least they are prepared to admit they got it wrong! (VAG group)
You mean they started doing damage control once they had been exposed
that's akin to a criminal changing their plea to guilty to get a lesser sentence when they turn up at court knowing ther is no way to get off with it
Edited by: Mickg
 

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How much fuel is burned when an engine is idling?
My internet trawling suggests around 0.02 litre a minute which means you will burn one litre in 50 minutes.
I drive daily to London and ISG probably kicks in for a couple of minutes at most on my return - a matter of seconds in the early morning start. So, with a bit of local shopping etc in about 1 month I may just about reach 50 minutes of saving with ISG working and save myself a litre of diesel (about £1.11).
That's under £15 a year for my 24,000 annual miles.

On this basis I do not worry if ISG determines it is too cold or I am drawing too much power for heated seats etc etc to employ. The whole system is a political tick box exercise so they can claim 'in theory' x tons of CO2 are saved by having ISG fitted on passenger cars.
 

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Just to throw a spanner in the works - the Citigo isg will always work more "reliably" as will the Kia petrol engined version (ie my wife's Picanto and a pair of Vengas owned by friends).

Also, have a browse around the other manufacturers' forums and see how many people complain about their isg systems. In nearly every case the complaints relate to diesel engined car where the restart demands are much higher than with the petrol versions.
 

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I changed my 1.6 CRDI proceed in December for an Optima SW.

In the 20 or so months I had the cee'd I could count the times the isg worked on one hand. But the optima works nearly all the time. my driving and journeys haven't changed only the car.

I think that the old isg system is just too sensitive to work effectively compared to what is in the new design of Kia cars (cee'd 2 released 2012 Optima released 2015)
 

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Is the Optima petrol or diesel?

Petrol isg will invariably work but diesel much less frequently due to the much greater demands on starting the diesel engine.
 

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Over recent weeks, the ISG system in my diesel-engined car has operated more often than I'd like. There are times when I'd prefer the engine running, such as waiting to turn right at traffic lights on a steep hill so I can accelerate and go when a suitable gap in traffic coming the other way occurs.

Due to that kind of situation, I sometimes switch it off before setting out on certain journeys because I know there will be occasions when I want a burst of instant acceleration.

I need to make a right turn on to a steep, uphill stretch of busy A-road very close to home which can be problematic to say the least. The difficulty is that most traffic coming down that hill is still doing 50-60 mph although the 30mph limit (from 40 and 50 shortly before) for them, began 150 yards before my junction. No-one gives way....ever....to traffic attempting to get on to the A-road so one has to be quick off the mark. Drivers coming up that hill, many of whom are speeding already through the 30mph zone are accelerating hard because they can see the large 40mph sign just a few hundred yards up the hill. Really, the last thing one needs in that kind of situation is for the engine to cut out just when one needs a quick getaway.

If ever there were a need for speed control, this particular junction would be near the top of any list. Sadly, A-road traffic flow takes priority over basic road safety in the eyes of the DfT and police. Evidently, they will only revisit this much complained about matter if there are several fatalities at the junction.





Edited by: Indalo
 

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Just keep your foot on the clutch pedal and it'll stay running. Or is yours automatic?

I fully sympathise with you - there seems to be a distinct lack of courtesy in the majority of drivers. They all seem to have the "gotta get there immediately" attitude instead of giving themselves a couple of extra minutes for the journey and saving fuel and their blood pressure!
 
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