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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys & gals


I've had my Rio for almost 5yrs, buying it direct from the Kia dealer in the town i live in. Its only done 60K miles and is in reasonable condition for a car that spends its time parked in a busy town centre street.



Just recently its had several faults, all giving poor engine running. Its was down on power, very hesitant pulling away and the revs woulddrop off to stall when idipped the clutch at the lights sometimes, other timesit would judder but pick back up to idle. So my local garage found and fixed a HT lead fault which fixed thehesitant problem BUT not the revs dipping/stalling!It also will not red line on the revs, bumps off around the 5K mark, this was once pointed out to me at the main dealer just after i bought it, read more below.



However the engine management light came on again a few days latershowing an ABS sensor fault, so they replaced that. This did nothing to fix the problem and the engine light came on again a few days later after having the error code wiped. Now its showing an "INTERMITTENT"vehicle speed sensor faultand i wanted to know if the symptoms match the fault code? A point worth noting is that although it judders and occasionally stalls it hasn't, yet!, not got me where i wanted to go. The garage is running a Bosch diagnostic machine. Its not a main dealer, the local one closed and the nearest is a 50m round trip. Also worth noting is that when i first got the car, it spent a lot of time with an engine management "light" fault that the dealer spentWEEKS trying to fix, lickily under warranty.They swapped a lot of parts with other Rio's on the forecourtand ended upinstalling a new engine wiring loom, whichfixed it,on the say so of Kia head office.



The problem is how much do i spend, i've already shelled out nearly £300 and its clutch is starting to slip, so i'm now looking at another £500 for both sensor and clutch without a cast iron guarantee of solving the problem. Even the mechanic is in two minds as to what i should do next!



Sorry for such a long post and big thanks in advance
 

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Hi and welcome to the club Daz. The Rio model you have is only worth £700 tops or about £500 in a part exchange. So on these values I would not entertain spending another £500 quid in trying to sort the engine fault and a clutch. After all you have spent £300 and it is no better.
In my opinion I would call it a day and trade it in for a 06 onwards Rio or something similar. The time comes to all cars when you have to call it a day piling money into it especially when its resale value is so low.
Best of luck my friend.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for taking the time to reply fella, if only it was that easy. My job doesn't really give me the confidance to take out another 5k or so loan for a new car. Looks like i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
What does the speed sensor do? Will the car carry on as is or get worse, will it fail an MOT like this?

The abs is working fine, some wet leaves by my mothers pointed that out the other day lol.As its worth jack @#$% i'm thinking of possibly replacing the clutch and running it into the ground so to speak. At present it still gets me around and only stalls once or so every couple days. Not ideal but then i'm not gonna buy another car for £300...
 

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DazT said:
What does the speed sensor do?
(VSS)
What it says on the tin it measures road speed. If your model has ABS the signal from one of the VSS usually goes through the ABS then to ECU.
Main problems are wiring that has broken or rubbed on some part and shorted to earth or the connection plug has corrosion on the terminals. But its possible the VSS has broken down internally and will require a new one.
I done one recently on a Ford Puma and after fitting you have to delete all stored error codes from the ECU and run the car normally for a few miles until the engine management light goes out and after that its tickety boo.
Just to add, to check which one it is I done a continuity and resistance check and it turned out to be front drivers side.

Edited by: davy
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Oooo er, cracked ring!!!!! That sounds painful



Maybe i didn't phrasemy questionproperly, obviously it detects the speed of the car but what does the ECU do with the data. Is it a fueling/emisions thing, will it effect mpg or somesafety issue with the abs etc etc. Basically, can i leave as is so long as the car is running no worse than at present? Can it fail an MOT? I don't drive that much, 30K in five years and only do motorway once or twice a year to the midlands.



I know i can't do without a clutch but can i leave the VSS???
 

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It is possible the ecu will cause the engine to run on reduced power. The VSS could be sending a wrong speed reading to the ecu and the ecu is then altering fueling and ignition timing to that incoming data but the car is either going faster or slower but who knows without the diagnostic equipment required to check on speed readings coming from the VSS.
If your ABS light illuminates when ignition on and then goes out when engine is running and does not come on during the test then it will pass that part of the mot.
Not sure if there would be an emissions problems but that would show up in their emissions test.
With regard to clutch you can get a complete clutch kit for between £90 and about £115 depending on make of clutch from ebay. The job is booked at 2.7 to 3hours.
There is various speed sensors for Kias also on ebay from £22 to about £55 but none listing for your model.
£500 seems a lot for the clutch and sensor repair dont you think. Is that a KIa garage or your wee friendly garage man.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
It is expensive for me at this time of the year with two kids lol!Going by his last billof 47.50ph, hes charging about £100 for the clutch. He says 3.5 job hours clutch and .5 for sensor. The sensor was from Kia dealer and is aprox £105, working the quote backwards, including VAT. I've not checked but i did with the abs sensorand he was bang on the money. It all seems to be labour + VAT. I went to him through my usual guy who doesn't do electrics, apart from being expensive he seems straight up. I'm waiting on quotes for the clutch else where.


As for the engine, it does feel down on power and will not rev past the 5k. It doen't feel like its anything other than running in "safe mode" for want of a better phrase. I'm more of a pc guy than cars lol. The abs light goes out and like i said is working, it wasn't for a while after my "wee mechanic" broke it replacing the front wheel bearing. He had to tap it out with a flippin hammer! The wheels locked and skidded then, i tested it out to make sure.



I've got the cash for the clutch, thanks nan, so i think i'll get that done and see how things go. Once crimbo is over and my wife completes the switch from weekly to monthly pay i'll be in a better place finacially. Then i can think about the sensor around mot time.



Thanks again for the advice, even if i didn't scrap the car! I'll pop back and let you know how i get on, just in case some one else ever finds themslves where i am now!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ok clutch done, £230 fitted now i need the timing belt done, £150 fitted. Then the VSS asap... :(


How do i tell which timing belt kit i need? They list two and my 2002 Rio is right in the middle of both set of dates?
 

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Usually they go with either the VIN number or engine number. Some just ask for registration number.
That's good you got clutch done at a reasonable price. The timing belt is only booked at 1.6hrs and is an easy job. It will need replacing cos if it goes then its valve and piston kissing. Gates is a good make of belt kit and is on ebay at £60 inc p&p. The price of £150 fitted is that with a genuine KIA belt kit.
 

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It might not seem worthwhile paying more than a car is worth to keep it going, but sometimes it's better the devil you know!








Buy a newer car and unless you're lucky, you could easily spend lots on getting things sorted on it.



I say if the car is otherwise sound and if you can spend £500 on keeping it on the road for another year, it's a bargain. The new car will depreciate more than that in a year.



If you're strapped for cash for the next couple of years, buy another Rio exactly the same for £700 or lessand use it for bits. I did that sort of thing as a student and saved loads on buying new cars. If something goes wrong, just swap it out. Not sure on how something goes back together? Look at the other one.



The good thing about the old Rio is that it's fairlystraightforward and easy to repair. Newer cars have more and more electronics, ie less reliable and difficult/expensive to fix.
Edited by: M4trundler
 

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Discussion Starter #13
@M4trundler your not wrong there about better the devil you know, just hope it don't bite me in the bum.



As for the timing belt, it will be a generic one fro Autoquip or something, it'll last out the car for sure, lol.



One thing, i had the clutch done and just found the old one in the boot, in the new clutch box. How much friction material does a new one have? The old one doesn't look that bad, bit rusty in places but thats all???
 

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Does the friction plate look burnt. The pressure plate could be weak causing clutch slip. Or they could be oil contamination due to rear crankshaft seal leaking or gearbox input shaft oil seal leaking.
 

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I hope I am not too late to reply about your post, but here goes anyway.

I had my timing belt done through a local garage, the price being £168.50. This was with the timing belt kit included. It was £58.00 for the belt, and idler. You can however buy a belt through ebay for about a tenner, but make sure you get the idler and spring as well, also to be had on ebay, although not much cheaper than the original.

As to your question about the timing belt, if your car falls in between 2001 to 2005, then the belt will be right for your car, on a 2002. Do make sure that the garage is registered, as you will have no come back should the belt break. Kia do not cover timing belt damage with their warranty, which, lest be honest, is very poor in all aspects of cover.
 

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use a genuine belt and the cover is there


use a £10 elastic band and no sorry not coverd and yes all belts are probably made by one of 5 manafacures but like tyres the main players all make budget brands that do not have the latest materials or design much like baked beans you pay your money you take your chance
 
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