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I have just read that the government are planning to reduce the electric car grant from £3000 to £2500 and also reduce the car price it is available on from £50,000 to £35000. This no doubt will effect a lot of people’s choice regarding car choice and also see some current orders being cancelled?
 

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I have just read that the government are planning to reduce the electric car grant from £3000 to £2500 and also reduce the car price it is available on from £50,000 to £35000.
Well, obviously, it's part of the government's strategy to encourage the car-owning public to eschew nasty internal combustion-driven cars and subscribe to their programme of electric car ownership for the masses inside the next decade or two. Oh, hang on.......:unsure:
 

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Well, obviously, it's part of the government's strategy to encourage the car-owning public to eschew nasty internal combustion-driven cars and subscribe to their programme of electric car ownership for the masses inside the next decade or two. Oh, hang on.......:unsure:
Yes nothing like making a life changing rule to the majority of motorists and then cutting the incentive, it will certainly reduce the number of models I was currently considering when the time comes to change cars.
 

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I have just read that the government are planning to reduce the electric car grant from £3000 to £2500 and also reduce the car price it is available on from £50,000 to £35000. This no doubt will effect a lot of people’s choice regarding car choice and also see some current orders being cancelled?

TBH. It makes sense to bring the level down at which point you no longer get the grant.
It's a good way to make manufacture think about the price point of their cars.
% wise the £500 drop in grant is nothing over the £15K drop in max limit.

Lets face it if you can afford a £50K car, then £3K is not really going to be a issue.

When you look, there are very few EV's in the lower price points (thinking £25K or less) which is where the vast majority pick up needs to be for a average family to start looking at a EV from the money saving side.

So I look at it from the point of view that manufactures have not been helping, using inflated EV prices knowing that there is a top up available that makes the price look batter.
Nice £3K pure profit for manufactures. Now they will have to think if they want to price their cars in a more affordable way.

Kia Niro is under the new limit. Soul is over, only just drops under with the £3K grant to £34,545. Expect the Ioniq5 & Kia EV6, I would expect to be Well over the limit.

All in all, people are buying EV's and the gov grant will not be a factor in many purchases.
 

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The e-Nero 4+ is £39,395 with no extras and standard paint, so this would not be eligible for the grant either
 

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The e-Nero 4+ is £39,395 with no extras and standard paint, so this would not be eligible for the grant either
Opps. When looking at Kia site it defaults to the "2" which is £32.845 with std paint & no extras.
 

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1) As iooi said, it will help to bring prices down
2) Any orders and deposits paid will already be on £3000 grant and remain.
3) Those smug barstewards of us who jumped early got £3500 and £500 for a wall charger.

I picked up my Niro last March(£3500grant) a week after the grant was reduced to £3000 and Kia finance couldn't cope with the balance sheet. Because of staff illness I was dealing directly with the dealership manager and he was on the phone for 35 minutes telling the finance section how to get it to balance.:cool::ROFLMAO:
 

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Surely the whole point of the Government grant was to attract people to buying EV's?
So when that happens you take it away?
Only when EV's have
a) similar range to ICE say 400 to 500 miles on a tank/charge;
b) a large enough network of charge points that accept one type of payment and one rate of cost;
c) a sensible recharge time similar to ICE vehicles and
d) a sensible purchase price to ICE
THEN I'll consider an EV
otherwise they are simply city cars or shopping baskets.

The Government did a similar thing with solar panels, otherwise I'd have them on my roof.

What is the point of this grant?
Perhaps make the manufacturers give the same reduction?
 

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More from today's 'Independent'
.
Enthusiastic as I am about the electric car, I can at least understand the government’s cut to the plug-in car grant, misguided as it is. To offer a caricature: it was being used, initially at least, by the very rich to buy Teslas and the like; luxury motors with a list price approaching £100,000.
The original grant, going back to 2011, was a bizarre £5,000 subsidy from what the politicians refer to as “hard-working families”, to the very wealthy. In recent times, it has been steadily trimmed back and gradually restricted, with the grant down to £3,000 on sub-£50,000 motors in the 2020 Budget.

With today’s announcement, it is firmly focused on what passes for the mass market: electric vehicles, priced below £35,000 – but now with the subsidy down to £2,500. By the way, how much of that in fact helps the manufacturers, rather than the consumer, is debatable. In other words, what would the price be if the grant was abolished altogether?
Given relatively high demand and short supply, right now the price would probably be higher; but as the numbers and range of electric cars on sale multiplies, and the cost drifts lower through higher volume production, that may change.

Still, for now it makes less sense than it did before to go electric – and it won’t help us go carbon-neutral. I suppose the way to look at the well-off swanning around in their all-electric Teslas, Polestars or Porsche Taycans and Jaguars, is that they’d otherwise be merrily pumping NOx and CO2 into our lungs in big V8s and V12s instead. The air we breathe – and the climate crisis – needs to be factored into such calculations.
The £35,000 cut-off does exclude quite a few very practical medium-sized electric cars with a wider range, and “range anxiety” is still a key factor in consumer resistance to adopting an electric vehicle. The Treasury may have overdone the restriction a bit, in other words – possibly to exclude the cheapest Tesla models, because of their plutocratic connotations and association with Elon Musk, the world’s richest human; if so it was a fairly petty mistake.

The move seems to have been as a result of a fairly damming report by the National Audit Office a few weeks ago, which basically said the Treasury had blown more than £1bn on the plug-in car grant over the years. The apparent waste of money was too egregious even for this government, and so the grant has been shrunk once again.
But logic, industrial common sense and value for money isn’t everything so far as the green agenda is concerned, and what price can we put on the future of life on Earth? I’m quite serious about that, and the answer is that £1.3bn over a decade... ain’t that much. Does the Treasury factor in the cost to the planet when it makes its tax changes? I’ve not seen it.
If the UK is going to hit its CO2 targets and see an end to new petrol and diesel cars sales by 2030, it will need to create a lot more momentum behind the switch to electric. After all, only people who live in homes with off-street parking can easily install their own charge points for cheap and convenient overnight charging – the only sensible way to run an electric vehicle.

Owners rely on being able to use cheap electricity to compensate for the price premium still charged for pure electric power (and some of the same arguments apply to plug-in hybrids, now out of the grant scheme altogether). Flat dwellers and those in terraced houses (no matter how wealthy) are excluded from electric car ownership for the time being, as street side charging is rare and quite expensive (about the same as filling up with petrol, in cost per mile).
You can’t really dangle a lead 100m out of your window of leave cables to run across the pavement, for obvious reasons. Converting lamp posts might help, but it has hardly started.


One way to get Britain’s car fleet electrified is to load ever higher taxes on petrol and diesel vehicles and their usage. This has been done, to an extent, but the recent freeze in fuel duty reminds us just how politically “charged” such a policy can be, with the cost of living trumping the environment every time.
So, that leaves the only other route to getting us to go green: to throw money at it. Rational consumers need to be persuaded it makes economic sense to go electric, and the car makers have done an enormous amount to help persuade them with a range of real-world usable choices – Kia e-Niro, Hyundai Kona, Peugeot e-208, VW ID.3, MG ZS, and the British-built Nissan Leaf – being some of my favourites.
They’re quiet, refined, have ultra-low running costs, have excellent acceleration from rest, will go 200 to 300 miles on a charge... but they remain more costly then petrol or diesel equivalents. The UK has to be a place where we buy and make the cars of the future. It is a transformative technology, but it needs investment and incentives. The government is pulling the plug, and it will miss its targets.
 

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Surely the whole point of the Government grant was to attract people to buying EV's?
So when that happens you take it away?
Only when EV's have
a) similar range to ICE say 400 to 500 miles on a tank/charge;
b) a large enough network of charge points that accept one type of payment and one rate of cost;
c) a sensible recharge time similar to ICE vehicles and
d) a sensible purchase price to ICE
THEN I'll consider an EV
otherwise they are simply city cars or shopping baskets.

The Government did a similar thing with solar panels, otherwise I'd have them on my roof.

What is the point of this grant?
Perhaps make the manufacturers give the same reduction?
Do you ever think EV's will hit A,B,C or D?

A, Possibly in a few years (but will have a heavy weight penalty due to the amount of batteries required) Or New battery tech hits, without a premium price.
B, Well that means nationalisation of the charging network. Remember not everyone pays the same rate for electric at their home.
C, Well that is going to take some serious work on the ability to cool while charging or battery life will suffer (based on current tech) there are faster charging options out there, just need the tech to be refined for mass market.
D, Well that is in the manufacturer hands. It seems the batteries are the issue with pricing.
Take the Niro. HEV £29.850, PHEV £32.195 EV £39.395 (mid range) Ev £32.845. This is base price in top trim level.

EV's made up 10.2% of sales last year. So are on the up. As take up grows then the need to bribe people to buy one becomes less.
Never mind the Covid effect on the Government coffers. Which we will be paying for for a long time.
 

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Depreciation is worth more than any grant; I think I'll wait. ;)
 
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"SOME" ICE's have tanks which will take them approx 350 miles. "SOME" EV's have batteries which will take them 350 miles. What's the problem??
 
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Do you ever think EV's will hit A,B,C or D?

A, Possibly in a few years (but will have a heavy weight penalty due to the amount of batteries required) Or New battery tech hits, without a premium price.
B, Well that means nationalisation of the charging network. Remember not everyone pays the same rate for electric at their home.
C, Well that is going to take some serious work on the ability to cool while charging or battery life will suffer (based on current tech) there are faster charging options out there, just need the tech to be refined for mass market.
D, Well that is in the manufacturer hands. It seems the batteries are the issue with pricing.
Take the Niro. HEV £29.850, PHEV £32.195 EV £39.395 (mid range) Ev £32.845. This is base price in top trim level.

EV's made up 10.2% of sales last year. So are on the up. As take up grows then the need to bribe people to buy one becomes less.
Never mind the Covid effect on the Government coffers. Which we will be paying for for a long time.
Yep and just to add to point B of the original post petrol stations don't have one rate so neither should it be expected of chargers too.
 

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"SOME" ICE's have tanks which will take them approx 350 miles. "SOME" EV's have batteries which will take them 350 miles. What's the problem??
You can stop for 5 mins and top up your 300 miles and be on your way, no real need to plan a journey by the distribution of EV Charging points and your rest breaks.

If you run out of juice on the road a jerry can of petrol will get you on your way, you won't need a lift tow truck to take you to a charging station (I know that some Emergency Service vehicles are beginning to carry emergency EV chargers now - but that still incurs a long delay before you are on your way again)
 

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Depreciation is worth more than any grant; I think I'll wait. ;)
Aye but unlike ICE cars that depreciation is likely to be REAL - ie battery condition and cost to refurbish/replace.

I was having a discussion elsewhere re electric buses and fuel cells etc.

Basically everything boils down to energy transfer time and storage stability :

Oil = instant/very rapid transfer of energy, very stable storage (fuel tank);
Electric = variable transfer of energy times but generally very slow, storage degrades based on usage & environment;
Fuel Cell = instant/very rapid transfer of energy, very stable & removable storage.

My personal opinion is that subsidies on expensive cars benefit the people who CAN afford full cost more than anyone else & I'm not sure why poorer people should be funding richer people. Probably an old-time view these days but meh.
 

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My personal opinion is that subsidies on expensive cars benefit the people who CAN afford full cost more than anyone else & I'm not sure why poorer people should be funding richer people. Probably an old-time view these days but meh.
And I suspect that they are no longer subsidies but means for manufacturers to keep prices high.

Reducing subsidies (even steeper) will push manufacturers to drop prices. The manufacturers may whinge but they will have to return to the tried and tested model of pricing against the competition not pricing against a subsidy threshold point
 

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The fact is that all the nay sayers WILL be driving EV's very soon.
 
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I have just read that the government are planning to reduce the electric car grant from £3000 to £2500 and also reduce the car price it is available on from £50,000 to £35000. This no doubt will effect a lot of people’s choice regarding car choice and also see some current orders being cancelled?
The issue is that the UK is in deep deep debt and it is increasing. With more and more electric car models being offered for sale and sales volume on the cusp of increasing very substantially, the cost of the scheme to the taxpayer is going to increase exponentially. The taxpayer and the Exchequer just cannot justify more and more outlay on vehicles that will be bought anyway, subsidy or not, and certainly not on vehicles that are basically bought by the well off in the £30k+ price range. Also it has to be realised that virtually no further revenue is raised from these vehicles from fuel tax, road tax, little from benefit in kind and nothing from congestion charges either, so the loss to the exchequer from each one sold is absolutely massive.
If you [not you personally] struggle to afford a £30k+ car then I venture to suggest buying something more modestly priced which still has a subsidy. Or an used vehicle of which there are millions readily available with an infinite choice in terms of variety at huge savings compared to new.
 

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Range of around 300 miles is now a reality in EV's, I doubt that few people drive further than that without a break, so take that opportunity to charge whilst eating, drinking getting comfortable if you get my drift, and then be back on your way. Also how often do you drive that far, the vast proportion of journeys are under 30 miles. I was a 'range anxiety' protagonist, but when I examined my actual real world usage, EV's became eminently sensible. As regards Government subsidies perhaps spending the money on a decent charging infrastructure would be a better use of funds and also encourage the uptake of EV's
 

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The fact is that all the nay sayers WILL be driving EV's very soon.
Only when I really have to LOL
The flexibility of our two vehicles wins,both have little monetary value (2005 Vitara,2008 Sporty crdi auto) but both very competent vehicles,the vitara is a super cute 3 door which my OH absolutely adores - the Sporty will do 400+ miles on a full tank,will do 500 miles under certain circumstances.
Living in rural scotland and being a Glider Pilot makes an EV a very unattractive proposition LOL.
 
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