It's the Injectors or Fuel Pump at fault,,,, not a cheap fix I'm afraid.

 

thanku for your reply much appreciarted i will post up the results of the diagnostic tomorrow hope it will help thamku for all the help i have had much appreciated maria

 

i have replied on another post of yours but as you will see by now that you have pump and injectors at fault.

yes not a cheap fix but it not just kia that suffer with this problem.
fords have a delphi system that gives problems as well also vauxhall audi and many others.
with these done the car will be great again.

 

Hi Dmc
thankyou for your reply We had the diagnostic done and guess what NOTHING CAME UP !! The guy tried two machines and still nothing!
We have a mechanic friend but hes in birmingham and he said when we mentioned the the fuel pump that if it was that it would just go and the car would not go either and my husband seems to agree with him. but i have been thinking the pump and or onjectors for a while now but because their is no contamination whatsoever in the fuel they both say there would be metal floaters in it from the injectors or pump whichever. obviously though i am not a mechanic and only know what i read on here. Today he changed the fuel rail and sensor and its still the same wont start well it will start after its turned over half a dozen times first. He has a friend with a diagnostic tool who is coming tomorrow and we have a friends 2002 sedona hers in our drive so before anything else he is going to try the crankshaft sensor and swap it with oit friends to c if its that first before we start with injectors and fuel pumps because we are so bloody skint this is why we are going through the cheapest bits first . I feel sorry for my hubby cause hes not well and bein out in the cold he is feeling it he is an old school fully qualified mechanic but since the OC came in he is miffed with some of the stuff like he says it used to be easy but there are that many sensors and wires to go wrong if the diagnostic dont pick up the problem u are stuck. will post the outcome of the next diagnostic and the result in swapping the crankshaft sensor once again thanku everyone for your help much appreciated mariabut at

 

i had no contamination in the tank or in my fuel filter and had the cark crank over a fair bit before firing up.when the injectors go they do not normally put up a fault code they only come up when the injector is that bad and not firing correctly.
do a leak down test on the injectors there shouldn't be hardly on fuel leaking back at all from them.

the fuel pump is a high pressure pump if you get to much leak back on the injectors then it will loose pressure and yes light will come up but when you pull over and restart the engine it resets the light.
you could find changing just the injectors cures the problem but trust me my neighbour has gone through the same problem with his injector was faulty one was siezed in the head the faulty one.
so after fitting another head and injectors the car started fine every time now it will only start after cranking it over for a long time i did tell him that the pump could well be faulty and needs changing but could not afford it so wasnt changed.
as i have said on your other post i had the same problem was injector leaking back to much only one of them i was not going to go the route of changing the set then do it all again as the fault was the pump causing it so all was changed and pump.
starts first time every time now even when its very cold flick of the key and it starts.

i have done a few now where people have said just change the injectors now we no longer will change just the injectors as had to many of them come back complaining that its hard to start again.
smoke from the exhaust on start up is there a strong smell of diesel.

Edited by: dmc

 

Hi DMC
Thankyou once again for your reply and it does sound like you are right.
I told my husband to do a leak down test (just as a matter of interest how do you do a leak down test because when i told my husband he didnt look that knowledgeable about how to do one but he wouldnt say anything to me so instead of him faffing about trying to find out it would be great if you could enlighten me then i can sort of say i read about it on the internet, i dont know what it is with him he wont ask for help, but as you can see i have no problem, i dont care if i look stupid so i ask away I just want my car fixed lol!!!
when you said about a strong smell of diesel yes there was the other night when he had been trying to start it and it had turn over loads of times.
I actually recorded the noise of the engine ticking over the other night i just wish i could post it up on here somewhere so folks could listen to it, because somepeople are good like that they can tell just by listening to the engine.
what i cant get over though is the other night the light never came on at all and it felt like it did when it was new. so god knows unles we got a poltergeist in it lol!
so anyway if you can tell me how to do this leak down test i will get him to do that next okay thankyou so much for your help maria x

 

I recently has an issue with warm starting. One injector was not good but it was the sensor for the crankshaft that was the problem. That wasn't too much to get changed but it was a bit of problem to find.

 

there is videos showing how to do it on youtube.i had problem with hot starting and that was cam shaft sensor causing it but was only when hot. and it never brought a fault code or eml light.
get him to take the pipe of at the inlet from the inter cooler and spray some easy start in here if it fires up straight away on it then it is a fuel pick up or delivery problem.
here is one to start with there is many more.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W58q42wYCM4

 

oh well i am really fed up today car will now not start at all just keeps on turning over and over and over hubby swapped the crank shaft sensor and still not starting. its a bloddy nightmare i want to go jump of the pier. when you are skint and you need your car to earn you money its as double whammy no car no money no money no car I could scream. Hence why my hubby is trying to do it himself. the only reason we didnt go for the pump and injectors to start with was because it was really expensive and we didnt have the money and someone said that if it was the fuel pump it would just not start ha ha like now. also to start with the cheapest parts first ha ha could have bought a pump by now with all the other bits we have bought put together but you live and learn they also said that if it was the injectors going it would be making a phff phff sound. or we would have fuel contamination in the fuel and or filter.

well it didnt make a phff phff sound but i thought it made a bit a puff puff sound every now and again.
it had no fuel contamination in the fuel or filter.
it has been a gradual problem that has got worse It all started on accceleration like when you drop a gear to go up a steep hill engine light would come on that kind of thing.
it didnt loose power as such but seemed very sluggish and harder to accelerate to the right speed.
it uses more diesel now.sometimes i have heard a whining noise but my husband said this was the belt slipping or something.
so far we have had two machine diagnostics showing no faults
and now the thing wont start so cant even get it to a bloomin garage to do another one.
I WONDERED IF anyone knew of a diagnostic scanner that was cheap like up to £25 that would work on a kia sedona 2004 crdiL manual. I checked out with one guy who was selling autel scanners and he said it was difficult to get a scanner that worked on this model because that is the year when it changed over or something.his were £19.99.
The best bit was i went to the autel site and chatted online with a sales rep and asked her which was the best one for my car and she said get this (OUR SCANNERS DONT WORK VERY WELL ON DIESEL ENGINES) now is she having a laugh or is she serious. because autel scanners are on ebay advertised and diagnosing problems on diesel engines, did i just get a nutter, i am so confused.
so at the minit my hubby is once again looking at the egr valve and taking it off and cleaning it because i believe that this has not yet beeen changed although in my first post i said that it had well it hasnt so we will see what happens when he has put it back together again will update asap thankyou everyone.

 

hi again i had 2 of these bluetooth code readers one would work on mine the other wouldnt but would on other cars.

right now getting back to your sedona fault you really need to do a leak down on the injectors.
the egr on the early models would more than likely not be at fault of causing it starting problems its more on later model diesels that are controlled by electric motors built into them.

there is a small hose from the inter cooler to the inlet manifold take this off inter cooler end and squirt some easy start in there if it starts quickly then its a fuel problem getting fuel to injectors or the injectors returning to much fuel not allowing them to build up enough pressure for them to work correctly to start the car if they are returning loads of fuel yes could be just faulty but 9 times out of 10 the fuel pump rotors are breaking up and getting into the injectors and causing the problem.

this is why where i worked we would not just changes injectors on there own.
we was even doing some warranty work for a rover main dealer on the freelanders when people put petrol in them as we could do it cheaper than the could as our labour rates where like half there was and it being a all day job changing the tank pump and injectors and recoding them.

do the leak down test it is the first thing i do when checking a common rail diesel for bad starting after it fires quickly on easy start.

times are hard for lots of people right me including as im not working right now and finding it hard just to find money as others are watch the video and do the leak test as it shows so much on how the system is working and use clean jars / bottles and look for bits in the fuel.

these system need pressure to work and leak back on the injectors dont help the more of the injectors the worse it will be for starting.



Edited by: dmc

 

HI DMC AND EVERYONE
A PARTICULAR THANKYOU TO YOU DMC !!!
I am learning all the time about engine systems and fuel injection systems and although as interesting as it is i want to blow it up right now.
OKAY I THOUGHT I WOULD JUST DO A PRE CHRISTMAS RE-CAP FOR ANYONE FOLLOWING THIS SAGA LOL
OKAY THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE CHANGED OR REPLACED SO FAR!
1. OIL AIR AND FUEL FILTERS CHANGED CHECKED FUEL FILTER FOR METAL BITS NONE FOUND TOOK PETROL FROM TANK NO CONTAMINATION FOUND THERE EITHER.
2. OIL CHANGED
3.IMV CHANGED NO IMPROVEMENT
4. FUEL RAIL AND SENSOR CHANGED NO IMPROVEMENT
5. EMV CHECKED CLEANED NO IMPROVEMENT
6. TOOK TO A GARAGE TRIED ON TWO DIAGNOSTIC MACHINES NO RESULT ONE DIDNT WORK THE OTHER SAID NO FAULT FOUND.
6. LEAK DOWN/OFF TEST DONE NO DIFFERENCE IN AMOUNT OFF INJECTORS ALL ABOUT THE SAME.
7. EASY START SPRAYED INTO MANIFOLD BECAUSE IT WOULDNT START HOT OR COLD SHUDDERED LIKE CRAZY BUT STARTED UP RAN LIKE A DOG FOR A FEW MINUTES THEN WAS OKAY.
8. ENGINE LIGHT STAYED OFF FOR OVER 24 HOURS DROVE LIKE IT DID WHEN IT WAS NEW THOUGHT IT WAS FIXED THEN THE FOLLOWING EVENING STARTED IT UP AGAIN ENGINE LIGHT CAME ON STRAIGHT AWAY AND OFF WE WENT AGAIN. ARRHHHHHH
9. BORROWED TWO ACUTEL DIAGNOSTIC SCANNERS ONE TWENTY QUID ONE AND ONE A HUNDRED QUID ONE THE CHEAPER ONE DIDNT EVEN WORK AT ALL THE EXPENSIVE ONE SAID NO FAULT FOUND.ARHHHHHHHHHH
10. GOT UNDER CAR AND BANGED THE CATALYTIC CONVERTER TO SEE IF IT SOUNDED LIKE GRAVEL IN IT BUT IT WAS SOLID NO RATTLE SO DIDNT THINK IT WAS THAT EITHER.
9.NOW THE OTHER LIGHT IS FLASHING ON THE DASHBOARD THE ONE THAT LOOKS LIKE A FIGURE EIGHT SIDEWAYS WHICH I BELIEVE IS THE PREHEATER FOR THE ENGINE. BUT WE THINK THIS IS JUST A BAD CONNECTION.
10. TODAY TOOK IT TO GARAGE WITH A STAR MACHINE NO FAULT FOUND AND TRIED ANOTHER MACHINE THAT DIDNT RECOGNISE THE CAR ARKHHHHHHHHHHH.
11. SPRAYED SOME IMV SPRAY INTO AIR INTAKE MANIFOLD AND GAVE IT SOME WELLY ON THE ACCELERATOR IT MADE A HELL OF A RACKET AND STUNK LIKE NOTHING ON EARTH. NOT MUCH SMOKE AT ALL CAME OUT OF THE EXHAUST?? BUT WHEN HE WAS DOING THIS I COULD HEAR A HIGH PITCHED WHISTLE NOT A SQUEEL AND IT DIDNT SOUND LIKE THE TIMING BELT OR CAM BELT OR ANY BELT FOR THAT MATTER IT WAS WEIRD AND SEEMED TO GET HIGHER AND LOWER IN PITCH AS THE ENGINE TURNED OVER.
THIS STUFF IS SUPPOSED TO CLEAR ALL THE CRAP OUT AND CLEAN THE TURBO ETC AND WE THOUGHT IT HAD WORKED !!! HA HA UNTIL WE WERE NEARLY HOME AND NOT EVEN HARD ACCELERATION THE BLOODY LIGHT CAME ON AGAIN AND DRIVING LIKE A DOG ONCE MORE.
HUBBY IS GOING TO DO A VACUUM TEST NEXT WHEN WETHER IS FINE THEN IF THAT ISNT THE PROBLEM THEN WE GONNA DO THE FUEL PUMP REASON WE NOT DONE IT YET IS GOT NO MONEY LEFT AND TRYING TO GET OUR MONEY BACK FROM THE PARTS THAT WE DONT NEED ON EBAY BUT THAT IS LIKE PULLING TEETH AT THE MINUTE ITS A BLOODY NIGHTMARE I FEEL LIKE THE WORLD IS AGAINST ME AT THE MINUTE I NEED TO WIN THE LOTTERY LOL BUT HEY HO I AM FOR MY SINS A STUBBORN COW AND I WILL FIND OUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS IF IT KILLS ME DMC !! ALTHOUGH I BELIEVE YOU ARE RIGHT I WAS HOPING FOR A CHEAP FIX OR A MIRACLE LOL WILL POST AGAIN SOON TO KEEP YOU UPDATED AND THANKYOU AGAIN PLEASE DONT THINK WE WERE IGNORING YOUR ADVICE WE JUST DIDNT HAVE THE MONEY YET TO DO THE PUMP OR INJECTORS MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE AND HAPPY NEW YEAR SANTA MAY THINK I HAVE BEEN A GOOD GIRL AND BRING ME A NEW SEDONA OR AN OLD ONE THAT WORKS WOULD DO LOL HUGS AND KISSES UNDER THE MISTLETOE LOL XXX

 

 

YEP ANOTHER UPDATE LOL!
It does look like DMC is right and it is gonna be the injectors and fuel pump. Yesterday I gave it some welly after the engine light came on to see if we had a blockage cause that is what it feels like all of a sudden I heard a thwap sound like sonething a blockage being sucked along then stopping it didnt help so watever it was just muzt have moved along. Has anyone any idea what that thwap sound could be ???? Thankyou maria x

 

I just had another thought before the car has had quite a few blows to the underside of it once when a number plate flew off a lorry on the mptorway and hit the underside of the car with a bang but after car seemt ok. Then I hit a bump in the road and scraped the underside it went with quite a thud I wondered if there was anything I could have damaged u derneath the car. I also seem to be able to hear like a shussing noise like air escaping whdn its sat turning over after bdkng run a few miles any ideas wux be cool S this could be something else on top anx not connnected thankyou maria x

 

It is possible you have damaged/squashed one of the diesel pipes.

 

hI everyone hubby now done the vacuum test and no air leak anywhere to be found. also checked the fuel cap to make sure it fitted correctly and when it was unscrewed it made a fizz noise pressure coming out i presume so that must be okay.
just going back has anyone any idea what that thwap sound was that i heard that sounded like a blockage being moved down a pipe but getting stuck again. like when you suck up something with your hoover pipe and then it gets stuck and then moves again that kind of noise.i am just curious to know why it would do that, it does look like the fuel pump and injectors DMC thankyou again maria

 

Well yes I am still here and adding another update to the longest running car saga I have ever known. You would have thought by now if it had been the fuel pump or the injectors it would have completely packed up by now and died but to my amazement this car is still going strong well not as strong but going okay at least. I havent been on with any updates as we had no money to do any more work on it and my mother in law who is 92 had a fall in jan so we have been driving up to carlisle n vack every three days since the 6th of jan and for the first couple of times the engine check light was coming on about 20 times per trip having to turn off engine and restart absolute pain. But then it gradualy has got less and less to the point now it hardly comes on at all and I can do 234 miles in one day and no light appears. It still does happen occasionally so this has really made me wonder now if it is the pump or injectors or could it be the throttle position sensor instead any ideas wouldbe fab I do hope by continuing to update it may help someone in the same situation with a ghost in their kia lol thanks again to everyone maria x

 

Just to add since jan 6th we have done about 4,000 miles in a car with a suspected fuel pump or injector fault doing average of bet 80 and 90 miles an hour would it still be going if this was the case? Anybody know please thankyoi ?? Maria x

 

Hi, Maria

Where about a are you located? I'm in East Yorkshire and have a diagnostic computer that is good with kia's, I also run a sedona myself that had an injector fault when I bought it. I have fixed several 2.9crdi's using my computer to diagnose the faults. My computer picks up faulty injectors and pumps, also I can watch live data so you can see the fault as it occurs.

 

Hi had very similar problem, mine felt like it was pinking / running out of fuel, eml came on chuffed spluttered and died, got it home on a truck, cos its auto, dammed thing started but refused to start at side of mway, hence ride home, break down chap had no idea, got a mate to run diagnostics on it and it came back p1020 electronic speed govenor ! could not find out what that was, scan done with a snap on solus pro, all faults cleared and the blasted thing started after a couple of turns, doing a live data check it spluttered to a holt whilst ticking over, it had been running for about 3/4 mins only, checked again same fault, sod it left the pig for over a week till i found out more info, but nothing doing, then got told the solenoid on the pump could give problems and take it off clean it or replace it cost new about £70.00. whilst it was ticking over pump preasure was measured and it read 350 bar and whent to 800 when revved, so was told pump fine, no miss fire and after turning on and off each injector as you can with the snap on gizzmo you could feel the effects as each one in turn was off, so nearly took solenoid off and nearly bought a new one, untill anoth mate came over after hearing my woes, He looked at the pump and ran a few checks cos it started again and ran for a while temp guage at normal and revving it up now and again, he said pump fine have you checked the fuel filter after looking at it cos it looked newish, he removed the pipes and unbolted it, why ? well he said he was looking for a sqished pipe or other blockage, but said he though it was fuel starvation rather than any other fault, he had a gadget to test the flow from and back to the tank after looking at fuel gauge he suggested whilst it was still in a running state i go and get 2 galls of fuel whilst he put filter etc back on, filling station 2 mins away on returning with half a 5 gallon drum of the liquid gold we removed the filler cap, and behold a hissing noise but not from preasure but vacume! was yours the same ? sucking rather than blowing, we filled the tank and just as an experiment left the cap loose I usually tighten it till it clicks, the reasoning was that it could be a breather problem ! We ran the car again after pumping up fuel through the filter it started no problem we ran it for a good half hour outside my house with live data and all sorts of other checks being done, we eventually decided that it was time to take to the highway, after making sure we had the means to get the car home should it turn out to be a red herring, belive me I was at my wits end thinking pump injectors the cost was going up to the point that scrapping it looked good, We took it out drove it around town up hill down dale and along the bypass, it performed like a good un all live data at hand to boot in case it did throw a wobbler, next we took it on the mway, risky I know cos were getting further away from aid if we need it, but mway it was, clog down 70 all the way odd spurt up to a bit more like you do, slow down to 40 ish hit some good hills cos we have them , long steep drags start off at 35 and boot it up the hill make it work and use a lot of fuel, gear changes slick power loads of it quiet smooth everything youd expect not a bloody murmer from it, and so far so good, now I am not saying this is the answer to your problem just that it seems to have been the answer to mine, as a result I drilled a 4mm hole in the cap to aid with the venting in case it is a blocked vent just though I would share this with you in case it helps cheers and good luck hope you find a cure....

 

Hi, Reading all these comments gives me a headache. but I, too, have had all the same symptoms described here. After ten thousand miles of intermittent engine check light coming on at excelleration, the past few weeks it got worse until now it won't start without easy start hot or cold. Diagnostocs came up with number one injector fault, so we checked it and found it was leaking fuel back, so this is awaiting change. Hopefully that will cure the problem.
The only strange thing about it is the hill climb bit. It cuts out about three quarters of the way up a hill, that is, the same place on the same hill nearly every time, even with a full tank. Tried gunning it up the hill and driving with a feather foot, but the same result. Madness.
Finally, it does seem to have developed that 'pinking' rattle and it's on the increase. Maybe the 'knock sensor' has gone down. Any ideas?
I have to add that half of the motoring population must be going mad with all of the electronic and emmition problems in modern cars. Everyone I know has had these problems and the consequent drain on their bank balances. What on earth is the answer?