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My update.

Nothing scientific but I think I can conclude no appreciable difference in mpg, not with all the vagaries and variables of week-to-week driving. But cold starts and idle are much worse with E10; the G4FJ is fickle at the best of times and it much prefers 99RON. Shame about the eye-watering cost!

I imagine though, different KIA engines will react differently. It'll be interesting to see what other find in the fullness of time...
 
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Hi

Further to my earlier post about E10 petrol and consumption.

I drive a Niro 2018 plate and what I have observed so far: is-

  1. Petrol consumption prior to E10 change over was Average 55-64MPG as displayed, True usage 58 and displayed tank rang 530 miles.
  2. Since using E10 Average 40-49MPG as displayed, True usage 50, displayed tank range 480.

What I have noticed is that the engine is running more often in the colder weather and I believe this is partly due to cabin heating (N.B. during the mild weather and by reducing the climate control down to 18*C and leave the heated seats, steering wheel and demister off, I did see a slight improvement in MPG although not to what I was getting on the daily commute).

N.B. My True MPG was based on filling the tank up, dividing the miles covered by the litres of fuel added to fill the tank and multiply that by 4.55 to get the MPG. Not 100% accurate but close enough. (e.g. 438 miles divided by 39.96 litres = 10.96MPL multiply by 4.55 = 49.87MPG).

May I finish off by wishing everyone a

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

Paul
 

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Hi Paul - I have a 4year old Niro and have noticed a significant drop in mpg since the change from E5 to E10 in September. Used to get consistent high 60s but now lucky if low 60s. There is much anecdotal evidence in the media of similar drop in mpg with other cars.
The Govt claim of “a saving of 750,000 tons of CO2” is not based on any trisls on actual vehicles (confirmed in answer to a written question by my MP) and actually means MORE oil-based petrol is used, not less, plus all the bioethanol in addition.
Convenient for Big Oil, faced with increasing numbers of EVs, and convenient for the Exchequer with 57% of every gallon’s price being tax. Also “convenient” that the September queues at filling stations showed that motorists would pay anything rather than be without fuel.
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In our 2 cars (neither are Kia's) the average mpg before and after E10 seems very similar. In truth its difficult to assess accurately on the PHEV but on longer trips using mostly the ICE it seems not to have changed but on the other car according to my spreadsheet it had averaged about 48.65 mpg (over 3 1/2 years) prior to the introduction of E10 and has averaged 48.38 since.
 

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Hi Paul - I have a 4year old Niro and have noticed a significant drop in mpg since the change from E5 to E10 in September. Used to get consistent high 60s but now lucky if low 60s. There is much anecdotal evidence in the media of similar drop in mpg with other cars.

Comments welcome
Hi & Welcome.

While the release date for E10 was September, given the supply chain, tanks @ Petrol stations etc. You would be looking at October before you might be driving on pure E10.
Which nicely coincides with temps dropping & damp/wet roads Which are the biggest killer of MPG.

TBH if you are still getting 60MPG in your Hybrid Niro you are doing very well and must do a lot on decent length trips. As my average MPG over 6K miles is only 53 MPG & I have a light right foot, but tend to do a lot of short trips (sub 15 miles)
I can't compare my like for like tanks as I have not had the car for a year yet. But Feb & March this year were under 45 MPG, yet Nov & Dec are just under 50 MPG.

I find that you need to do at least 16 miles to get 50+ mpg on the single trip readout.

Either way E10 is here to stay & has been used in many countries around the world for a long time. So I would treat UK media scare stories with the same contempt that they treat their readers... Remember they have to make stories out of nothing to sell..
 

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Hi & Welcome.

While the release date for E10 was September, given the supply chain, tanks @ Petrol stations etc. You would be looking at October before you might be driving on pure E10.
Which nicely coincides with temps dropping & damp/wet roads Which are the biggest killer of MPG.

TBH if you are still getting 60MPG in your Hybrid Niro you are doing very well and must do a lot on decent length trips. As my average MPG over 6K miles is only 53 MPG & I have a light right foot, but tend to do a lot of short trips (sub 15 miles)
I can't compare my like for like tanks as I have not had the car for a year yet. But Feb & March this year were under 45 MPG, yet Nov & Dec are just under 50 MPG.

I find that you need to do at least 16 miles to get 50+ mpg on the single trip readout.

Either way E10 is here to stay & has been used in many countries around the world for a long time. So I would treat UK media scare stories with the same contempt that they treat their readers... Remember they have to make stories out of nothing to sell..
I have never noticed an mpg change winter to summer. My driving is always a mix of urban and longer distance, always with a light right foot and with winter tyres all year round (as can never predict when they will be needed, and not willing to spend 2x£40 to change them in spring and autumn). Tonight I am checking all my petrol purchases vs mileage from July 2020 to Dec 2021. More news soon.
 

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with winter tyres all year round
Presume your insurers know. They are happy for drivers to use them from November through to the end of March with no premium issues but using them outside that period without speaking to them would probably cause issues with cover after an accident.

£80 a year is better than not being insured.
 

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Presume your insurers know. They are happy for drivers to use them from November through to the end of March with no premium issues but using them outside that period without speaking to them would probably cause issues with cover after an accident.

£80 a year is better than not being insured.
I doubt they would worry. Or they would want all drivers to change from summer tyres once temps drop below 7C.
 

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Presume your insurers know. They are happy for drivers to use them from November through to the end of March with no premium issues but using them outside that period without speaking to them would probably cause issues with cover after an accident.

£80 a year is better than not being insured.
We are on a different issue now, but I have never seen any reference at all to WTs not being safe all year round, or not covered by insurance April to Oct. Could you guide me to your source? TIA
 

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We are on a different issue now, but I have never seen any reference at all to WTs not being safe all year round, or not covered by insurance April to Oct. Could you guide me to your source? TIA
Its not that they are unsafe, but its a simple fact that they are not designed to be driven in the hotter times of year. The softer more open tread will cause much faster wear meaning you need a new set every year which wipes out the £80 saving you make.

When I started using winter tyres about 15 years ago ago (on both mine and the wifes cars due to our commutes taking us into parts of the country regularly affected by poor road conditions) you had to inform the insurers when you fitted them and took them off. Some companies would charge but Aviva never did accepting that they were safer than using summer tyres on winter roads. About 10 years ago the ABI issues an annual list showing the requirements of various insurers with regards to winter tyres, it was supposed to remove the need to inform the insurers. But when we changed cars I still phones and told them what we would be doing and all they did was note it on the policy and there was no charge, the wifes current car is still noted as using winter tyres whereas mine is not. Both retired now and no need to fit them , if it snows we stay at home.

Here is a link to the ABI site

Winter tyres | Motor insurance | ABI

and in the "Next Step" section there is a link to a pdf document detailing the requirement's of insurers. Since I last looked at the document (this one is 2019) they seem to have removed the November to March requirement probably assuming its common sense to only use winter tyres in winter.

But if you don't want to keep changing tyres proper All Season tyres with the 3 Peak Mountain Snowflake symbol are still very good. We had a set of Kleber Quadraxer's on a Micra about 5 years ago for 2 quite bad winters and never had an issue on snow covered roads and even after summer use they had actually worn better than the summer Bridgestone tyres that were on the car previously, not expensive either.
 

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I have just compared petrol purchase receipts for my Kia Niro with dates of known mileages (services, MOTs etc) from June 2020 to date.

June 2020 to Dec 2020 = 65 to 68mpg on E5
Sept 2021 to Dec 2021 = 57 to 58mpg on E10
 

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E10 was only released for sale in Sept... You will not have been filling up with it straight away.
There may have been a “crossover” period where storage tanks at filling stations contained a mix of E5 and E10, but that surely is well past, 4 months on. My recent mpg figures are those shown on trip computer at each refuelling with ~35L. Consistently lower than comparable period 12 months ago with similar driving habits and journey mix.
 

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I have never noticed an mpg change winter to summer.
Bob - Winter mpg will always be worse than summer mpg - it is an inescapable fact of mechanical life mon ami.
We do not do short journeys in our cars but I would always expect to lose up to 5 mpg during the coldest winter months.
 

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Bob - Winter mpg will always be worse than summer mpg - it is an inescapable fact of mechanical life mon ami.
We do not do short journeys in our cars but I would always expect to lose up to 5 mpg during the coldest winter months.
But I am comparing last year’s winter months with this year’s to eliminate that potential variable. It’s pretty clear to me that E10 gives lower power and lower mpg.
 

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But you did not compare the same months Bob
Also true winter does not begin until 21st December - so winter mpg is probably realistically from Nov to April (unless you live in the SW of England when it might just be Dec to March :) )

June 2020 to Dec 2020 = 65 to 68mpg on E5
Sept 2021 to Dec 2021 = 57 to 58mpg on E10
 

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This is the best I can show from my fill ups (22 in a total) on the Niro & covers my ownership, just over 6K miles. Only May included long trips thanks to Holiday.
As you can see November (46.2) & December (48.5) are better than February (44) & March (45.8) last year.

To me jury is still out on E10 and it's effect on MPG. I would guess that most people will not notice a difference. It's not going to go away & looking at the price difference between E10 & E5 fuel. Any gain in any MPG is far outweighed by the increase in cost per tank.

Rectangle Plot Parallel Font Electric blue
 

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As I have posted previously - I am paying through the nose for super super super E5 for our 2005 petrol Vitara,according to owners manual it is 'ok' for E10 but I figure E5 is kinder to its 16 year old fuel system hoses and seals,also E5 is less Hygroscopic so hopefully will cut down on fuel tank condensation whilst sat in the tank over a scottish winter (our mileage varies greatly with weather so it can sit for weeks without being used).
 
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As I have posted previously - I am paying through the nose for super super super E5 for our 2005 petrol Vitara,according to owners manual it is 'ok' for E10 but I figure E5 is kinder to its 16 year old fuel system hoses and seals,also E5 is less Hygroscopic so hopefully will cut down on fuel tank condensation whilst sat in the tank over a scottish winter (our mileage varies greatly with weather so it can sit for weeks without being used).
Have you seen you can buy zero ethanol fuel if you are storing long term? A bit of overkill for your Vitara, but it might be of interest to anyone on here who lays-up cars or bikes over winter with carbs and/or metal fuel tanks.
 
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