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Drake Box 2

28K views 33 replies 7 participants last post by  davy 
#1 ·
I see on ebay that one can buy a box to fit the Soul that claims to increase the power output from 128hp to 17hp. Has anyone done this successfullyand been pleased with the result? How easy is the conversion?

cheers
Steve
 
#3 ·
Ok guys, by now you probably know i sell our brand of Re-Mappable PowerBox.....website at the bottom if your interested.....the reason i am responding to this thread regarding the Drake Box, is that i was approached by the company in Italy to re-sell this product along side our own.....and was sent sample boxes to try.

Well, for £40 cost price i had many doubts of the integrity of these, and when they arrived i was not surprised.

The box contains a resistor mounted on a circuit board with a digital press button to show which programme you are selecting....there are no programmes....

Everything cased in solid black silicone.............



Tomorrow i will post up a picture of the box and internals....i would not like anyone to get hoodwinked into a load of rubbish.



Although i endorse our PowerBox, at least it is a Full digital Tuning Box with 9 seperate programmes......we can not buy the cables and outer boxes for nearly the price they are offering dealers !!!!




Cheers



Taff
 
#8 ·
The one with the photos. We used to make brake wear indicators and the most successful (reliable) and tamperproof were the ones that were filled with resin.
Not saying it is any better than yours - only that it should still work OK.
 
#10 ·
Just a brief explanation of the resistor type Tuning boxes being sold on ebay for around £100.....



Having been a member of various car forums and been asked whether these 'tuning chips' work a bazillion times by other members, and after seeing how many are being listed on Ebay, i thought it was time to set the record straight on what they are, and the harm they can do to your engine. Firstly, they neither chip or tune your engine - only a proper ECU chip, mapped to suit your car with the correct fuelling/air ratios can tune it (superchip, seb Re-Mappable Tuning Boxes.etc) and these are usually 100-400 pounds to buy and are a replacement EPROM for the board in your cars ecu,or placed inside the tuning box.They'reNOT a 10p resistor available from any branch of maplins or RS. So what doesthis resistor actually do? In a nutshell it cons your ecu by sending it false information about the temperature of the air going through the airflow meter or IAT sensor on your cars engine. It basically makes the ecu think the air is much colder than it actually is.The colder the air, the denser it becomes. Dense air (if my physics is right) means that you're getting more oxygen per cubic centimetre (CC) in the combustionchamber which makes the mixture of fuel and air burn hotter, making a bigger bang and creating more power. Its this information that is used by the ecu to adjust the amount of fuel needed for the conditions its sensing,and proper running of the engine. Right, thats the science bit out the way.


So whats the problem with the resistor 'chip' then?? Right.....with one of these resistors fitted, your cars ecurecieves the air temperature info via the resistor which, as said previously, is not an accurate reading of the air temperature going into the throttle body. Because of this, the ecu makesthe fuel system of your vehicle deliver fuel at a higher rate than the engine needs. Yes you might feel a small improvement in power (although in some vehicles the opposite is true)buttoo much or too little fuel is pretty serious as it can lead to detonation, lumpy idle, bore wash,higher emissions, lower mpg and, in extreme cases,evenwrecked pistons!! Anyone whose ever had their car in for repairs at a garage will know how costly in terms of inconvenience and money this can be, and dont expect much help from the seller, as thesmall print on the packaging will state that no liability will be taken for damage caused from useof the product :(


Please remember what your parents probably told you many times - if something seems too good to be true it most probably is!! There are no tuning mods that deliver 20+ BHP for a couple of quid.....if it was that simple to gain horsepower from an otherwise standard engine car manufacturers development costs would be a lot lower and everyone would own a racing team ;) Unfortunately there are also no shortage of unscrupulous people who are only too happy to relieve you of your hard earned money by promising the earth and delivering a nightmare so research your subject before you buy.....


If you're serious about tuning your engine the best advice i can give you is to go online andjoin a forum that covers your make and model. This way you can speak to people who have already done it. They will tell you what works and what doesn't, whats good value for money and whats a con, and you'll meet friendly,like minded people as an added bonus :)


Well thats my tuppence worth - hope reading this has been of some usefulness to you. Please remember to mark it as helpful if it has been :)


Buy smart, and remember........fire burns!
Taff
 
#13 ·
I've said it before but its worth repeating, how can a man in a shed hope to improve what a manufacturer spends 1000's of hours developing. To get more power you need more fuel and more air, allany of these devices do is add more fuel.Fitting one will invalidate your warranty and also invalidate your insurance unless you tell them.
If your car is not powerful enough you bought the wrong one, puy a more powerful car next time.

Paul

Edited by: suttonseven
 
#14 ·
Paul,
I accept partially what you are saying, but our company is not based in a shed.

We always advise our customers to notify the insurance company, and modifications of any type can invalidate your warranty.





Why just an easy point, then does VW offer the same engine in 105/115/130Bhp......the exact same engine but the software is altered to produce the extra Bhp/Nm of Torque...just the same as the eprom chip used in our PowerBoxes.





Taff

PS.We supply our PowerBox under blank casings to several dealerships.
 
#15 ·
Taff
The last time I seriously looked at buying a VW (1999) the difference between the 90 and 110 models was not just the chip, the 110 had a different turbo. Have a BMW now, the 2 litre diesel is available in 122, 143, 172 and 202 bhp versions. Not entirely sure of all the differences but I do know for definite that the 202 bhp version has twin turbos and the gearbox and diffratios are different in all the models to make the most of the different power/economy charisteristicsthus its not just a simple chip change is it.

Paul
 
#16 ·
Paul,
I have been in this business for 8 years, prior to this a mechanical engineer so i would not have added this line to the company if it was not a reputable German product.

There are persons like yourself who do not like or want to like them...so be the case...we come across this from time to time. I could spend all week giving you arguements in my favour, which would be fruitless due to your principles..i respect that..



I wish also that you respect our company and product, you have not wished to try it, thats fair, but please do not knock the product.

We have 3 company Passats.....all the same except for the bhp values.....



Bmw are different, i did state all manufacturers were the same...Fiat/Alfa/Citroen/Peugeot etc are all of the same as Vw in this case...



Have a nice day



Taff
 
#17 ·
In the Pro Ceed Kia now offer a 4 spec CRDi model with 126 bhp instead of 113 bhp as fitted to the 3 spec model with the max power of both engines being delivered at 4000 rpm. How Kia find this extra power I have no idea. Interestingly the torque figures for both engines is identical with 188 lbs/ft of torque being produced between 1900 and 2750 rpm. Since torque/bhp/revs are linked by a simple to use formula bhp= (torque x rpm)/5252 (the awake amongst you will have realised that at 5252 revs torque and bhp are identical) we can calculate the bhp figures.
188 x 1900 / 5252 = 68 bhp
188 x 2750 / 5252 = 98 bhp

Since most diesel usersdrive betweenthese revs most of the time what is the point in an extra 13 bhp that will be accessed once a flood. In the past the Fords I have bought have not only had a useful bhp increase when you paid more but you also got a useful torque increase, same applies to VW and BMW. My guess is Kia have simply increased the fueling with no other changes to give this extra power whereas other manufacturers actually do a little more.

If Kia with all their resources can only manage to increase power with no change in torque I cannot believe that these tuning boxes will be any different, if they were surely Kia would be buying them to fit and then sack all the R & D staff.

When I was racing there was a commonly used saying, power sells engines, torque wins races.

Paul
 
#18 ·
Torque is the most important especiall;y with the diesel.
We offer 3 different programmes for the Ceed.

1.6, 90bhp increases to 110bhp..Nm increases from 235 to 260Nm

1.6, 115bhp increases to 140bhp..Nm increases from 255 to 310Nm

2.0, 140bhp increases to 172bhp..Nm increases from 305 to 362Nm.......

Each of the programmes offer 9 different settings, so you can alter the 9 powercurves to your style of driving



Taff
 
#19 ·
Can I join in on this discussion please ?
I had a tuning box on my Rio diesel up untill I sold it. I had it on for 2 plus years with no problems. The torque was up from and I quote from Pro-Bitz site 235Nm to 277Nm, BHP was up from 110 to 130bhp. Now I never got the car dynoed so I cant say if these figs were true or not. But my ass dyno certainly felt there was a great increase with the box so I was happy. MPG did not suffer.
If anybody wants to go that route for more power/performance and it DOES work for not alot of bucks then whats your problem with that Paul.
Now I have a Seat Leon 2.0 TDI Sport with the 140 BKD engine and I got a remap done by Celtic Tuning through an Audi/VW specialist. It cost me £360.
Torque figs standard 320NM remapped 406NM. Or 236ft/lb to 300ft/lb in old money
Power standard 140bhp remapped 188bhp
Cant say on mpg figs as it was only done yesterday.
Now Paul I always hear you saying why dont you buy a car with the power you want instead of modding a lower powered car. Well I will tell you why.
I would have liked the Leon FR tdi with the BMM engine which has 170bhp and 350NM torque but Insurance would have been higher for a start and the FR engine runs Siemens electrics on the engine and they are giving alot of grief with injectors going and wiring costing £800 each. The 140 engine has Bosch electrics and are alot more reliable.
Now the turbo on my Leon is good for 200bhp and so is the clutch and transmission. Mine has the big brakes so ok in the stopping dept. Suspension is able to handle that power. I actually find it very firm but it handles great. My mate who has a VXR Insignia said it was like driving a gokart point the front and it goes there
My findings after the remap well is bloody awesome. The rush comes in at 2k and stays there till after 4k.
The reason I didn't go for a box was that a mate who has a G O L F 1.9TDI tried a box then got a remap at the same place I did, said it was more powerful and smoother than the box.
I think boxes are a cheap way of getting more power but now that I have had a remap I would say the remap is a better option BUT it is alot more expensive. Personally I think £350 is expensive for just software cos thats all it is just a rewrite of the ECU. The box at a £100 say, well you can see it is an item and something to hold so it appears good for the money and DOES give good results.
I wish you could try one Paul as it may sway your opinions of them.
 
#21 ·
Been tuning race engines now for 23 years, how I wish these types of increases had been available to me. No head mods, no new cams, no steel cranks and rods, no forged pistons which add up to £1000,s, just plug in a magic box and instantlymore power than you could ever use. It may be true but experience tells me its not and being an old sceptic if these boxes are so brilliant why don't the manufacturers offer them as options with full warranty cover at a premium over the regular sellers?
One other thing to note, it is well documented especially on the European forums where they have been using DPF's longer than us that Tuning Boxes have a habit of causing problems and at £1000 a dpf that is an experience I would rather not have.

If the sellers of these boxes are so sure about the fact that they do not damage the engine and transmission why don't they offer to cover the parts and labour that the manufacturer would refuse to pay out on if he discovered that the car had been modified.

Sorry but you will never convince me that more power can be produced without getting more air into the engine to mix with more fuel. In F1 they still have to obey the laws of physics and when they need better economy to get to the end of a race they have to reduce the power of the engine, if they could get a magician who could give them more power for less fuel they would surely set him on immediately.

No wish to try one, will just continue to by the right car for me in the first place.

Davy, how much extra are your insurance company charging you now that you have told them about your 48 bhp and 64 lbs/ft of torque.

Paul
 
#22 ·
"Davy, how much extra are your insurance company charging you now that
you have told them about your 48 bhp and 64 lbs/ft of torque."

Eh £5.60 plus vat.

You tell me what ins co would be able to check or do check if the ecu map has been changed. Tho with a box its a visible item.


Paul maybe todays cars are ran lean so that the emissions are low for green issues and low tax which is a good selling point in todays GREEN world. So these "boxes" change the air/fuel mix to achieve the extra power by increasing the amount of fuel going in but have it set at a good ratio to obtain good results. Now if you have too much fuel to air then there would be a noticeable change in mpg and worse case black smoke emitting from your pipe.
This did NOT happen to me with the Rio so the box worked in increasing power and not increasing fuel consumption. There was no way the Rio was over fuelling.
As you tuned and raced petrol cars you will know that if an engine is running air/fuel ratio above 14 there will be a drop in power as its far too lean. As you know the ideal fuel ratio nowadays is between 12.5 and 13.5 for good performance and good consumption.
But Paul you didn't race diesels according to your previous posts.
These boxes work best with diesels with turbos and same with remapps.
So what is it I am feeling when I had the Rio ? is the wind resistance lessening or is there a big magnet in front of me.
Look Paul these "boxes" work and until you try one then you cannot argue. How can you disagree with the people who sell them and people who have used them and know they work.
Also how do you know that a remap does not let more air in along with more fuel to give that extra power. Can you honestly stand up and say it does not. The air venturi plate or regulator flap as its called on my Leon is controlled by the ECU so it can alter the amount of air to fuel plus what the turbo puts out is also controlled by the ecu so that will be adjusted to go with the changed incoming charge of air/fuel.
Now on my Hayabusa Bike I got that remapped the other week just to make sure fuelling was correct throughout the rev range and I watched the guy doing it all on the dyno. He must have done more than 20 runs and got the fuelling correct as it was running lean between 3k and 6k revs. Power increased by 10hp in that range. With the remap I saw the tuner change the values of the injectors and alter the timing. He also took out top speed restriction as now it will do 195mph and there was restrictions in power on 1st 2nd and 3rd gears so that it would not lift the front wheel too much.

Aww sh*t I've missed the cut off point to buy a ticket for the Euro millions tonight

If I won Paul I would buy you diesel car and throw in a tuning box for you to try.






Edited by: davy
 
#23 ·
There is absolutely no doubt that power and torque can be increased by only changing the ECU mapping. I think what you have to consider is what the engine is capable of as a maximum and work down. Manufacturers will rarely rate their engines at the maximum potential so in the case of a 1.6 diesel that is rated at say 125 bhp, it may well be capable of 160 bhp and the maker will offer 3 variants at 140 (well below destruction), 125 and even if there is a van application, 100 bhp. All these chips do is realise more of the potential.
However, there is a trade off and often, raising the power will raise the emmissions (that is why higher powered factory options aften utilise a DPF) and then the driver has to be very disciplined not to offset any benefits in economy by growing horns and passing everything in sight.

As for the warranty, I doubt whether Kia will underwrite anything with a power modification. So in that case a faulty radio would still be honoured but a broken crankshaft would certainly not. There are also insurance implications and everybody without exception is asked at the time of insuring whether or not there have been any mods. That applies to absolutely anything - the colour, the wheels and definitely the power. I've heard it said that it is very quick to remove a chip in the case of an accident but that statement makes some very profound assumptions;

1/ It might not be a broken rear light but the front of the car stoved in bad enough that it is impossible to open the bonnet to remove said device.

2/ The driver is in a fit state to do it anyway and is not busy picking broken glass and tree bark out of his/her gums during the ambulance ride to the hospital.

3/ If another vehicle is involved or anyone's property, then the liability implications go out the roof - we have not even scratched the surface of an injury or death caused by a vehicle that has been type approved with a certain power output only to be uprated without similar mods to the wheels, brakes, suspension ar anything else you would normally find uprated in a range of vehicles as they move up the power range.

OK now I'm confident that such a chip, whether it be a sophisticated Taff chip or a resistor set in treacle will increase the power output but unless it came with a diamond encrusted guarantee that the thousands in potential loss of warranty or the hundreds of thousands in potential public liability and litigation would be a part of such a mod then I wouldn't even think about it. I do know that if I or a member of my family were injured by such a vehicle then I would want blood and so would any lawyer acting on behalf of a claimant.

As the say on Dragon's Den, "for that reason I am out".

Edited by: anchorman
 
#24 ·
Thanks Guys for debating this....
Firstly Kia will not endorse a Tuning Device...although i supply dealerships of various makes.

Secondly my insurance incresed by 40.00 euro

Thirdly, In Germany where our product is made/sold, a Warranty can be purchased for average 269.00 euro with the PowerBox to cover your engine, this is endorsed by TUV and German Insurance Governing Body...its only in UK/Ireland that it is not available.



There are so many arguements over Tuning Boxes and reMaps, and i agree, remaps are a good alternative, but has its drawbacks, so has Tuning Boxes....i could put page after page of spiel up regarding advantages/dissadvantages...just google...but i dont need to bore/annoy anyone..



Getting back to my original reply....all i was trying to offer the members......ADVICE....if they considered purchasing a tuning device..was to stay clear of the resistor type for the reasons stated.....i am not stating you must purchase ours as its the only decent box out there....



In Ireland, my biggest seller is the PD Box for the VAG range of 1.9 engines....as insurance is so expensive here, customers can buy a smaller bhp engined SPAM/passat/octavia etc and save thousands on the cost of the car to start with, then save the added cost of the insurance, and increase the bhp/Nm upto and exceeding the higher model that they would have prefered...

YES, I AGREE THE INSURANCE COMPANY SHOULD BE INFORMED...



I rest my case as they say....its for some and not for others, just like Blondes....but just one thing PAUL...

we do not operate out of a shed, and i find that remark hurtfull and would have expected an apology by now..



Taff
 
#25 ·
First thing, I agree that a chip or remap can easily put extra fuel into the engine but without extra air that fuel is of no use. Extra fuel with no more air to burn it means an overrich mixture which means more smoke etc. To get more air into the engine you need to change camshafts, port the head or in the case of a turbo increase boost pressure, how many of these does a chip do. If the manufacturer did happen to set the air/fule ratio at max power a bit high to prolong the life of the dpfthe extra fuel could create more power but not the 25 to 40 being claimed, that would require serious engine work.
Davy, when I mapped my engine the AFR was set at 12.8 for max power. If you are not telling your insurance company because you believe they cannot tellthen you are being a little naive about what insurance companies are prepared to investigate to avoid paying out.
IfKia, BMW etc start to offer chips or remaps with full warrantyand that meant I could buy a cheaper car and later improve its performance I may then consider it.

Paul
 
#26 ·
suttonseven said:
Taff
The last time I seriously looked at buying a VW (1999) the difference between the 90 and 110 models was not just the chip, the 110 had a different turbo. Have a BMW now, the 2 litre diesel is available in 122, 143, 172 and 202 bhp versions. Not entirely sure of all the differences but I do know for definite that the 202 bhp version has twin turbos and the gearbox and diffratios are different in all the models to make the most of the different power/economy charisteristicsthus its not just a simple chip change is it.

Paul
That was dependent on engine code. Some 90hp and 110hp engine actually use the same turbo part number. ALH 90hp AHF 110hp use the same turbo. There are many engine codes for the same engine output with VW.
 
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