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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


I just bought an approvedused ceed ecodynamic, but the ISG light stays on all time and ISG is not working. Have the car back to dealer to check, and they just called me saying since the car had been sitting there for too long, it need to be run for certain number of miles (may be in the range of hundreds) in order to reboot the ISG system. Is this true? Does anyone have any experience about this?

I was also told that if ISG light stays on, it is not an error. Only when the light is flashing, it indicates an error. Any one had experience about this?



Many thanks in advance for any replies.



Wei
 

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TRUE isg will only activate when the battery is fully charged and its temperature is above a set peramiter so if the car has been sat for some time this can take a couple of long journeys to activate also if the battery has been removed from the car or disconnected the system can take up to 48 hours to sense true voltage my isg ceed has not stop started for about a week now as i do short journeys with lights air con heated rear screen all on


details of the system are in your manual
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks. I forgot to mention that the battery has been fully charged by the dealer, but the light is still on from what they told me. I was told the car still needs to be run for some miles to re-boot the ISG system (I actually had the car already for a few days before I sent it back). I just wonder even after the battery is fully charged, do I still need to run the car for certain miles to re-boot the ISG - this sounds a bit strange to me - what else will be achieved by running the car in order to re-boot the ISG?


Wei
 

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if the dealer incorrectly charged the battery on the car or removed the car for charging the system may take up to 60 hours to settle its voltage



the parameters below are the main ones to be aware of



For system to operate the doors and bonnet must be latched the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">seat belt must be on[/B] the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">engine temperature must be normal[/B] the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">battery voltage must be normal[/B] the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">battery temperature must be normal [/B]the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">heater fan must not be on speeds above 2[/B] and the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">air con must not be on max[/B] if <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">excessive electrical loads are applied the system will not operate[/B] you must <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">drive the car above 12 mph[/B] then come to a <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">stop the car[/B] must be taken <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">out of gear[/B] and the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">clutch pedal fully released[/B] if all the above are met the car will stop a auto stop message will appear on the dash to restart the car depress the clutch the car then must go above 12 MPH before the system will then reset.



if your doing all of these then return to your dealer and ask them to demonstrate the system if they cant get it to work then ask them to fix it
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
thanks Viking Paul for the information. they are very informative.





I'm now more curious about the behaviour of the ISG OFF light. The following are the only information I can find from the owner manual regarding the light

:
On page 5-7, it says: "The ISG system is ON whenever the ignition switch is turned on." (I assume this means the light should be off at this point?)<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />

On page 5-8, it says:
"* NOTICE
When the ISG related sensors or system error occurrs, the ISG OFF button light will illuminate. If this occurs, please contact an authorised Kia dealer as soon as possible"

Does any one know how exactly the light should behave? Will the light be on when any of the parameters is not met? For example, if every parameter is met but only the seat beltis off when the engine is started, should the light stay on until the seat beltis on?
 

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All as Viking Paul says WZ7. If the system is not operational for anyone of the parameters in VP's post then the light will illuminate telling you the ISG is off.
 

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mojomoh said:
All as Viking Paul says WZ7. If the system is not operational for anyone of the parameters in VP's post then the light will illuminate telling you the ISG is off.
I'm on my second ISG cee'd and I find that sometimes is simply doesn't "auto stop". It's doing it today. ISG light is OFF, driven 14 miles at 60mph so the engine is warm, outside temperature is 11 Celsius, seat belt on, air conditioning off, fan on setting 1, etc and still no auto stop. I tried restarting the engine (because I was stuck in traffic) and still no ISG when I come to a stop.
The previous car did the same thing - sometimes it just didn't work.

Normally (i.e. when it's working) it will kick in from as little as 2 miles driving.

Also, I am sure there are more parameters that prevent ISG from activating than are listed in the manual. For example, if you come to a stop after reversing then ISG will not cut out the engine. The ISG light is NOT a good indicator of when the ISG system is not functioning. On my car(s) ISG unexpectedly does not activate even when the light is OFF.

In my experience (whatever that's worth) the ISG light says on if the battery charge level (perhaps not voltage) or outside temperature is too low. I've not noticed anything else cause the ISG light to remain on.

My ISG light is normally on after I get the car back from the garage, because they left the door open or started the engine lots of times but didn't let it run for long enough to recharge the battery. (Quite rightly because you don't want to idle a new engine for prolonged periods.) Half an hour's driving normally sorts it out.
 

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WZ7 said:
On page 5-7, it says: "The ISG system is ON whenever the ignition switch is turned on." (I assume this means the light should be off at this point?)
What it is clumsily saying is that if you switch off the ISG once you restart the car it gets reactivated, assuming no parameter is out of range. In other words you can't press the button once to permanently disable ISG. The ISG button itself is a momentary switch and cannot retain an ON or OFF state.

WZ7 said:
On page 5-8, it says:
"* NOTICE
When
the ISG related sensors or system error occurrs, the ISG OFF button
light will illuminate. If this occurs, please contact an authorised Kia
dealer as soon as possible"

Does
any one know how exactly the light should behave? Will the light be on
when any of the parameters is not met? For example, if every parameter
is met but only the seat beltis off when the engine is started, should
the light stay on until the seat beltis on?
See my earlier post but when the outside temperature is -10 for example, the ISG light will be ON. By that I mean solid, not flashing. This tells you that ISG is not broken, but it knows it must not cut the engine, so it won't "auto stop".

I have never seen my ISG light flash.
 

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Hello. Just got a brand new Ceed Diesel 1.6 yesterday here in Dublin.The ISG does not work. Light is on. The manual says I might need to drive it 2 hours at above 80Kmh to get it working for the first, pending all other conditions are met as stated in another post.Will update.
 

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Hi


Not my Ceed but our BMW 118d which has Stop Start. Had a new battery last week, warranty luckily and dealer said it needed 8 hours after fitting to sort itself out, worked fine the next morning jsut as promised. Guess it could be the same with a new car.



Paul
 

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Hello Again, WellA surprise waitedfor me.Drove to work this morning the ISG light was still on=system is off. When starting the car in theafternoon, light was off and the ISG worked perfectly.So in all I have driven 80 KM with the car before the ISG stared to work.It looks it takes some time to be fully operable.Must admit it's a cool feature!


Edited by: arik11
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I forgot to mention here that my ISG has been working fine after a couple of weeks I got the car. the light would be on on some days, but after a few miles driving, it turns off and ISG starts to work. Cool!
 

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hi wei,
a new owner here too with isg, i bought a kia approved with 13k on the clock and the isg was working. i drive 20 miles round trip to work, a mix of town and dual carriageway. in town i was driving in fourth to keep the revs down and increase fuel economy but found the isg light on after a while. i now drive in 3rd in town which keeps the revs at 1750rpm but still keeps the fuel consumption low. i was wondering if there is a dpf which was getting clogged because of the low revs, the higher revs and a good blast on dual carriage way keeping it in 4th/5th for a whilr cleared the system and it began to work again. i hate dpf's!
 

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Not sure about the ISG models but the non-ISG Ceed diesels did not have dpf's until 2011 model year i.e. cars delivered fom Sept 2010 onwards. Driving at low speeds in 4th gear is a pointless excercise, at too low revs engines are not efficient, just drive normally. Driving at higher revs does not clear a dpf either (should you have one), only a regen will clean them out and that takes place when the sensors decide, ours happens more or less every 300 miles. All this talk of taking them on the motorway and thrashing them to clean the dpf is just an urban myth.
My BMW has stop/start as they call it, I personally think its a totally pointless feature. The only thing it does is improve the official consumption figures, has no effect in the real wd especially when you consider a modern dpf diesel should not be used predominantly in town.

Paul
 

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dpf has no relationship to isg operation read your manual on the isg and you will probably find the answer why the light came on as one of the parameters will have not been met and then the system becomes inactive usual one this time of year is air con operation


highrev running does help dpf's become less clogged as the exhaust gas speed is what causes the dpf to become active (super hot) and this burns off the built up soot deposits and then blows it out

dpf's Re-gen when they see a flow or temp difference between the front and rear of the dpf when this is seen the car either injects fuel directly into the dpf (Renault) or over-fuels the car (KIA) this encourages the dpf to flare and become super-hot having the same effect kia's do not have set re-gen intervals the last re-gen can bee seen on the ecu memory and we have some town cars that re-gen every 200 miles and some Rep's cars that have never regened in 20,000



if a dpf does become clogged then high rev running with a fuel additive can have an effect if its not too bad i know fiat dealers flush clogged ones with a caustic solution and a power washer usual cause for dpf clogging is incorrect engine oil and constant low rev running
 

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Viking Paul


What you are saying about dpf's conflicts with the info provided by my dealer and Kia. Let me explain.



Bought Ceed SW last September, first MY11 with dpf delivered by dealer but not worried since BMW we have has had dpf for over 3 years with no issues. In the 3 years BMW regens have been infrequent and difficult to detect, just a slight engine note change but our mileage is mainly out of town thus dpf friendly. Expected more of the same with the Ceed but after 300 miles exactly it started to run badly and smell of burning which I quickly realised was a regen. Took it to the dealers a couple of days later and diagnostics confirmed this and whilst there he did a forced regen to ensure system was clean. All OK but every 300 miles since (done nearly 7000 miles now) it has done a regen, hardly noticable after the first one but the engine runs a little rough and the fuel consumption increases alarmingly for the 15 miles or so the regen takes. The car gets exactly the same use as the BMW thus this rather surprised me. At my request dealer contacted Kia Technical who confirmed a regen should occur every 400 to 600 km dependant on use, 300 miles is within that range and not to worry. Dealer said this applies to ALL Kias with dpf's and not just Ceeds. I enquired if the frequent regens would shorten the life of the dpf, got an e-mail from Kia again saying not to worry since providing the correct oil is used the dpf is covered under the 7 year warranty. On a recent 400+ mile trip from Scotland 2 regens occurred exactly 300 miles apart and the trip was all on motorways with no traffic problems. It seems to me and other Kia owners with dpf's who have mailed me that this is the norm for the car.



With regards to fast running blowing soot out of the dpf I have been reliably informed that this is not possible since the matrix of the dpf is designed so that the soot particles stick too it until a regen occurs and it is burned off at over 600 degress C. I was told (not by Kia or dealer) and it appears perfectly logical to me, that if the soot could be simply blown out by revving the engine the ecological advantantages of trapping the soot until it is blown outwould be zero. I havelooked on the internet tofind out exactlywhat comes out of the exhaust during a regen instead of soot particles, is it non toxic, not found an answer as yet. One site I foundargued that by revving the engine to blow out the soot you are in actual fact creating more particles to block it faster, having had an old G o l f TDi that smoked like a lab Beagle when given some right footthat looks like a sensible argument to me.



The only thing that annoys me now about the Ceed regens is the extra fuel that is used, hardly seems ecologically friendly to burn more diesel to clear the soot does it. The BMW does not appear to use much extra fuel duringa regen but that car is Euro 4 and the Ceed is Euro 5 and has to trap more soot thus that is probably the difference.



The BMW stop/start does not work when the external temp is below 4 degrees and with the air con on the car can surprise you by restarting when sat at traffic lights. Personally I see it as one of the most pointless developments of the past few years, with no other mods BMW knocked about 20 CO's off the emmisions with no other changes, great for the annual car tax (down from £115 to £30) but the actual real world fuel consumption is hardly any different.



Paul
 

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hi,
there are two different type of dpf's an active one, where the car decides it is clogged and cleans itself by injecting extra fuel on the exhaust cycle of the stroke and a passive one whereby the car informs you by means of a light on the dash and where you need to increase revs for a period of time to heat the dpf and clean it.

i have had both, the first on a mercedes, kept running a cleaning cycle and cost a fortune in fuel until a mechanic was flown from germany to diagnose. the passive one was on a citroen c5 and running in too high a gear to try to lower fuel consumption also clogged it.
 

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Having checked the manual information very carefully when ISG not working I have become convinced that it happens only after a series of short runs. To me, this strongly suggests a link with the diesel particulate filter. It begins working again after a decent run of 30 miles or so.

Like other correspondents I am grateful for the reduced tax of £30 but also convinced that ISG makes little real difference to consumption. My Ceed Ecodynamic has slightly poorer consumption than Renault Scenic with 1.5 CDI 106 engine but is a much nicer car to drive.
 

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JOL
The stop go stops working on my BMW after several short runs especially when the lights are needed, nothing to do with the dpf, its battery voltage. Stop start does not operate when the battery voltage is low but a decent run soons puts some charge in and it operates again. Last winter on the BMW it did not work during the cold weather exactly as previous winters, when the weather warmed up it still did not work thus when car went for MOT I asked them to check it. Diagnosed as faulty battery which was replaced under warranty (2 days left) which was lucky when the abtteries are special ones on cars with stop start, £150 + fitting (the battery has to be programmed into the ECU, not simply bolted in). Its been perfetc since then.

Paul
 

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I had a similar problem with my Kia Cee'd 2009 Eco. Bought it from a garage and the ISG worked fine for the first 3 days then the light came on and it stopped working.

The garage checked it out and told me my clutch sensor has gone which is causing it not to work. The car is going back in Friday to be repaired.
 
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