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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All, Quick Question on above sensor.
With the Crank Shaft Sensor disconnected I have coming from the ECU a good Ground but the Power & Signal Wire are reading 2.5 Volts. Is the 2.5 Volts normal for this sensor? I am assuming it is.

I checked the Cam Sensor which is also a three wire sensor & I have 12V Power 5V Reference and GND.

Car is a Crank with no start with no error codes.
I have checked all fuses which are good.
In Tank Fuel Pump kicks in and I have a flow of Diesel to the inlet of the HPP.
The Car will not build High Pressure on the Fuel Rail.
The HPP does not create flow when turning, checked this with output pipe from pump disconnected.
I read that the Pressure Control Valve on the HPP will not send diesel through unless it sees a good signal from the Crank Sensor.

Assuming the 2.5 Volts is normal does anyone know what the Voltage gets pulled up to on activation.
I removed the sensor and used a spanner to activate it while Sensor plugged into connector & ignition ON and it pulses up to 2.7V max
My assumption is that this is not a pull down type 2.5V to 0V on activation.

Any help appreciated.
 

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I don't really know but 2.5V seems a strange value but your test with the spanner seems encouraging. This is a very transient signal and you will not be getting an accurate reading on your meter, but like I said it is plausible. No stored error codes is a bit of a puzzle. Are you sure that the immobiliser is working properly?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for response, I had checked that previously but double checked again today
Light comes on stays on for about 10seconds and then switches off.
On mechanic advice I had replaced the HPP & Fuel Rail but this did not sort the issue.
I removed EGR solenoid today to make sure it wasn't stuck & all ok there
I cranked engine and saw on Torque Pro app that the revs were 236 RPM so that verifies the Crank sensor and I believe this RPM should be enough to allow starting of engine.
I need to get my hands on superior software that can monitor the air flow rate and fuel mix or serve car up to an expert in the business.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi All., Update on this. I have been doing a lot of research needless to say..!
The crank sensor on these is a three wire sensor, there is a shield tied to ground to protect the signals back to the ECU.
The other two wires have 2.5V on them such that the ECU can detect either a short to ground or a short to 12V
The sensor is an Inductive type meaning its a magnet that is used internal to the sensor to generate an AC Signal which is sent back to the ECU. From this AC signal it determines the RPM of the engine. That bit known now I am still chasing a crank no start.
At weekend I ran a clear fuel line direct to the HPP bypassing the Filter and Fuel Temp Sensor, I wanted to see of Fuel line pressure drop was an issue that was preventing car from starting.
Doing this did not get the car started so I focused in on the In Tank Fuel Pump
Voltage checks at the pump all look good but using a short piece of fuel line I was able to see when the Pump comes On it pumps up the fuel but once pump switches off the fuel then starts to drain back into the Tank. I hope this is smoking gun..!!!
The Pump is an aftermarket pump that was installed about 4 months ago....I am a bit stumped that it has headed out to lunch in such a short period of time so I am looking closely at two things 1) Is it a sub quality aftermarket pump or 2) do I have an underlying issue on electrics that is accelerating the lifetime of the pump.
Research tells me that three conditions will kill the pump: 1) A resistance to the flow of fuel in the fuel line will force the pump to Max pressure 2) a bad ground on the pump
I had previously installed a one way check valve on the feed line to the filter & now I think that was not a good idea as all I was doing was creating a restriction in the line.
Bad grounds are a know issue on these also so I am going to run a local Ground to the Pump by connecting the existing ground to chassis ground somewhere local to the pump.
All for now.
 

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Hi All., Update on this. I have been doing a lot of research needless to say..!
The crank sensor on these is a three wire sensor, there is a shield tied to ground to protect the signals back to the ECU.
The other two wires have 2.5V on them such that the ECU can detect either a short to ground or a short to 12V
The sensor is an Inductive type meaning its a magnet that is used internal to the sensor to generate an AC Signal which is sent back to the ECU. From this AC signal it determines the RPM of the engine. That bit known now I am still chasing a crank no start.
At weekend I ran a clear fuel line direct to the HPP bypassing the Filter and Fuel Temp Sensor, I wanted to see of Fuel line pressure drop was an issue that was preventing car from starting.
Doing this did not get the car started so I focused in on the In Tank Fuel Pump
Voltage checks at the pump all look good but using a short piece of fuel line I was able to see when the Pump comes On it pumps up the fuel but once pump switches off the fuel then starts to drain back into the Tank. I hope this is smoking gun..!!!
The Pump is an aftermarket pump that was installed about 4 months ago....I am a bit stumped that it has headed out to lunch in such a short period of time so I am looking closely at two things 1) Is it a sub quality aftermarket pump or 2) do I have an underlying issue on electrics that is accelerating the lifetime of the pump.
Research tells me that three conditions will kill the pump: 1) A resistance to the flow of fuel in the fuel line will force the pump to Max pressure 2) a bad ground on the pump
I had previously installed a one way check valve on the feed line to the filter & now I think that was not a good idea as all I was doing was creating a restriction in the line.
Bad grounds are a know issue on these also so I am going to run a local Ground to the Pump by connecting the existing ground to chassis ground somewhere local to the pump.
All for now.
Hi mate have you checked the glow plug operation and you needed to check the solenoid it could be stuck inside of solenoid closed not open . Also did you tested any fuel to the injector? It could be blocked and look at the starter it May not fast enough to turn the engine and check Just the fuel return line on top of injector, good luck mate
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for response Diy, I have made a resistance check of the Glow Plugs to the frame and looks good. I could also do a current check with an Amp clamp to verify the amps flowing. I have verified no diesel going to Injectors by removing all return lines & cranking engine...got no flow out of each Injector so the rail is not building pressure. I disconnected output from HPP and no flow on cranking so my issue is back on the delivery side. Right now I think I have either a weak In Tank Fuel pump, an air leak in the fuel line or the Metering Control Valve isn't working, I don't believe its the Metering control valve as I changed the HPP & the Fuel Rail to go with it. Car does start using Brake Fluid in through the air intake so things look good engine wise. I recently installed a primer bulb to see if it helped to keep the rail pressure constant on Ignition ON & it did so that eliminates a stuck open Injector. Curious thing about the Rail pressure I am seeing now is its 32psi rather than what I expected which is 53-56psi. I burned the clutch on Google to figure why this is and it seems the Bosch Pressure Regulator on the Rail may come in two different pressure ratings. When I changed the rail it came with the the Pressure Sensor and Pressure Regulator installed.
If I had an unlimited budget I would install a new In Tank fuel pump..!!
Right now I plan on swapping back to the previous Pressure Regulator on the Rail to see if it reverts back to 53-56psi and install a new ground from chassis to In Tank Fuel Pump to help with the current flowing to the pump.

All thoughts & advice welcome.
 

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Thanks for response Diy, I have made a resistance check of the Glow Plugs to the frame and looks good. I could also do a current check with an Amp clamp to verify the amps flowing. I have verified no diesel going to Injectors by removing all return lines & cranking engine...got no flow out of each Injector so the rail is not building pressure. I disconnected output from HPP and no flow on cranking so my issue is back on the delivery side. Right now I think I have either a weak In Tank Fuel pump, an air leak in the fuel line or the Metering Control Valve isn't working, I don't believe its the Metering control valve as I changed the HPP & the Fuel Rail to go with it. Car does start using Brake Fluid in through the air intake so things look good engine wise. I recently installed a primer bulb to see if it helped to keep the rail pressure constant on Ignition ON & it did so that eliminates a stuck open Injector. Curious thing about the Rail pressure I am seeing now is its 32psi rather than what I expected which is 53-56psi. I burned the clutch on Google to figure why this is and it seems the Bosch Pressure Regulator on the Rail may come in two different pressure ratings. When I changed the rail it came with the the Pressure Sensor and Pressure Regulator installed.
If I had an unlimited budget I would install a new In Tank fuel pump..!!
Right now I plan on swapping back to the previous Pressure Regulator on the Rail to see if it reverts back to 53-56psi and install a new ground from chassis to In Tank Fuel Pump to help with the current flowing to the pump.

All thoughts & advice welcome.
Hi KiaSport2010
When you turn the key you hear your fuel pump fuel from your tank. If yes you can check just hose connected before HP pump it could between fuel tank to fuel filter making sure not blocking before you change anything else.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yes, I can hear the In Tank Fuel Pump on Ignition and also during cranking.
I have measured the Voltage at the Pump and measured voltage drop tests on both power & ground lines to the In Tank Pump. All Good.
I have ran a direct line to the HPP from the Tank to bypass the line in an attempt to get it started but still it wont start.
I had no codes showing but yesterday evening I got back P0087 which is the same code as I originally had when engine cut out but restarted.
Granted I am not a mechanic but I am reasonable confident that I can do this type of work & car isn't going anywhere in a hurry..!!!
This following link covers P0087 but I am also confused about a reference to an O2 sensor on the second link.
AutoHex Online Help: Hyundai SANTAFE(CM) 2008 Fault Code: p0087
Kia Sportage P0087 Engine Trouble Code - Kia Sportage P0087 OBD-II Diagnostic Powertrain (P) Trouble Code For Kia Sportage | EngineTroubleCode.com
The rail pressure is reading 32psi with Ignition On NO Crank & does not budge from that during cranking,. As far as I can determine the ECU is limiting the entire fuel system through the Metering Valve & Rail Pressure Regulator. I have checked all fuses etc and double checked these as there two fuses for the ECU in the fuse box.
I voltage checked the fuses with Ignition ON to ensure there is voltage on both sides of the Fuse which there is.
I have pulled the vacuum hose off the Turbo Actuator and exercised the actuator to make sure the vanes are not stuck restricting air through, one guy online had this issue. His car would only start with the Vacuum hose off & died once hose re-connected.
I have replaced the HPP twice and the Fuel Rail also.
I believe but not 100% sure there is no learning procedure for replacement of the CP3S3 HPP.
I had previously removed the flexi pipe between the intercooler & throttle body to ventilate the air intake in a hope that it would start but I don't know if the ECU will allow the rail build pressure when the MAP is bypassed. It didn't start needless to say.
My next step is to start blanking off each Injector at the rail one at a time & cycle Ignition ON to see if 56 psi Rail pressure will be restored and if so... then I must have a stuck open injector venting fuel into the combustion chamber.
No point doing a leak back test as the rail pressure will not build into the 100's
Engine turns manually without issue so all good there and it will start for approx 2 seconds on brake cleaner before cutting out.

Any thoughts welcome.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Update: This evening I blanket each injector pipe at the rail one by one and turned the ignition ON after each blanking.
I wanted to see if Rail Pressure would climb to 56psi therefore proving or disproving a stuck open injector. The Rail pressure remained at 32psi consistently as I moved across the rail blanking pipes. I then removed the connecting pipe from the HPP to the rail and routed it into a plastic bottle & turned the Ignition ON to see what came out of HPP. NOTHING...!!! Aghaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
Driving me crazy...!!
While all this happening the Rail pressure remained at 32 psi ( forever imprinted in my brain)..!! I tapped slightly on the rail pressure sensor to see if the Rail Pressure would spike and it did so that 32 psi is equivalent to squat all.
Is this somehow measuring atmospheric pressure??? which isn't 32 psi. Atmos is at 14 psi.
I then pulled the rail pressure sensor connect off the rail sensor, still while the HPP pump connecting pipe is disconnected from the rail. I wanted to see effect just to verify the wiring and this did have some effect....the Metering Control Valve seemed to go full tilt (so to speak) so my conclusion is the wiring is good between the sensor and metering control valve via the ECU. I need to go back to basics and see why no fuel is coming through the HPP. I believe the HPP is good...I am on my second one from a dismantler. This one came off the Sporty that was running.

Thoughts anyone!!!???
 

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For ECU to operate injectors the pressure needs to be 1600bar.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yep, that is correct.
I have flow into the HPP ( I am on my second HPP) but pressure is not building
What are the pre conditions to the ECU allowing pressure to build....I am not ruling out that the ECU is fried but I do have the 5V reference about the engine and have verified both Cam & Crank.
Just looking for a new angle on this P0087 is the code and all effort so far haven't been successful.
It does fire up momentarily on brake fluid & I can easily turn by hand,
Anyone had a P0087 and was able to resolve it?
 

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Just a thought, but.... I had a similar problem with a S-Max not starting. Everything seemed fine mechanically and it even had a low fuel pressure error code. It stumped a local garage until we guessed that the starter motor even though turning seemingly quickly just wasn't turning quite fast enough to build pressure. The starter motor was drawing slightly too much current which was the clue. A new starter motor fixed the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks Christog...My Sporty has become a project car now & learning lots about how this common rail fuel system works.
There are quiet a few dependencies to be satisfied before the ECU will fire the Injectors, all built in for a good reason I am sure.

Something I learned last night is the Rail Pressure Sensor reads 32 psi without the rail being under pressure...it had really screwed me all along as I assumed the rail was getting this pressure from the In Tank Fuel Pump i.e. fuel was making its way through to the Rail. NOT...!!!!

Thanks again for input.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Back in the game..!!!
Eventually found my issue.....despite the Immobilizer light appearing to function correctly I had an issue with a connector between the Immobiliser & the Immobiliser Antenna under the steering cowl.
There is a connector in there that connects the Immobiliser to the Immobiliser Antenna (Coil of wire around the ignition). This connector had gone high resistance into the 100's of ohms.
Manipulated the connector & it now reads 8.7 ohms when connected.

The initial error of P0087 took me off down a Fuel Delivery path which on the face of it was correct as the ECU in conjunction with the Immobiliser shuts off fuel delivery.
Attached came in useful in understanding how the ECU & Immobiliser work hand in hand.
It all sounds so simple now or as my good wife said "Is that all that was wrong with it" o_O

Thanks all for the helpful posts along the way. (y)
 

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