[Daveyboy123]

Hello all. Since I bought the car at 9500k miles I've noticed a bit of clutch judder. It's now on 13500k and all services done and maintained fine.

Clutch still judders though usually after it's been left over night, this I find is when it's at it's most noticeable, I notice in first and 2nd mainly and reverse where you pull away it judders a bit. After a couple of miles it all but disappears again and drives smooth for rest of journey.

Sometimes it's also accompanied by a sort of rubbing noise until clutch is fully released and past the judder.

Is this a normal thing? I'm assuming condensation is building on clutch and maybe surface rust like on brake disks causing it to release unsmooth but have no idea really.
I'm fine with living with it if it's fairly normal but just hoping it's not something that is going to end up breaking and leaving me on side of road.

 

[Kolster]

It's not normal on my 1.25 ISG 63 reg with 20000 on the clock which I've had from new, always very smooth clutch action.

 

[Daveyboy123]

Oh right ok. I did look on internet as haven't been able to find much regarding the picanto and a lot of cars seem to have issue, something to do with clutch lining material used now.

I've never experienced with any other car before though and as I say it's not permanent as after driving for a bit it smooths out again.

Is it likely to have issues then if others haven't got the problem or am I just unlucky I have one that's a bit juddery?

 

[dilus]

Clutch judder is caused by 3 things usually. 1) Unevenly worn plates/flywheel 2) Contaminated parts by oil, fluid or dirt 3) Glazing.
As you purchased the car with 9.5k on the clock you can't tell whether the clutch has been abused or not by the previous owner, it could hopefully just be glazed. If as you say it disappears after a short while I would put it down to this. If it gets any worse I would get it checked out. I have had 3 Picanto's from new and under certain circumstances have been able to produce a tiny amount of clutch judder on all 3, usually from cold and pulling out of the first junction and maybe not feeding the clutch in with the perfect revs each time. Other than that all 3 have been fine throughout their time with me and no issues. Anything mechanical that is round and spins needs to be balanced to run smoothly, clutches can magnify any tiny imbalance

 

[Howardl]

It may due to damp conditions standing over night, after a short time juddering stops as the plate is dried

 

[Daveyboy123]

Clutch judder is caused by 3 things usually. 1) Unevenly worn plates/flywheel 2) Contaminated parts by oil, fluid or dirt 3) Glazing.
As you purchased the car with 9.5k on the clock you can't tell whether the clutch has been abused or not by the previous owner, it could hopefully just be glazed. If as you say it disappears after a short while I would put it down to this. If it gets any worse I would get it checked out. I have had 3 Picanto's from new and under certain circumstances have been able to produce a tiny amount of clutch judder on all 3, usually from cold and pulling out of the first junction and maybe not feeding the clutch in with the perfect revs each time. Other than that all 3 have been fine throughout their time with me and no issues. Anything mechanical that is round and spins needs to be balanced to run smoothly, clutches can magnify any tiny imbalance

Thanks for the replies, you say it might be glazing? What exactly is this?

It's always fine after 5 or 10 mins of driving, it's just always that first initial few pull aways etc that you get the judder and hear the noise.

If it started doing it more frequently such as after a long run and it was still juddering then I guess it would be something more and might need to be looked at.

I do get some vibration from clutch pedal if I change gear at a rev higher than about 2.5k, below that there's no vibration felt but over this I can feel the pedal vibrate as I let the pedal in and out. Is this related and still glazing?

Thanks again

 

[picasso]

Maybe engine/gbox mountings?

 

[Daveyboy123]

Maybe engine/gbox mountings?

This could cause clutch judder but only in mornings for first few miles?

 

[dilus]

Glazing occurs if the clutch has been abused, as in slipping when pulling away, we have all witnessed people revving the hell out of a car trying to park or manoeuvre in a tight spot and keeping their foot on the clutch pedal. This puts a glaze on the clutch plates and causes them not to grip the flywheel with any bite, any clutch slipping creates lots of heat and can warp the clutch plates or even worse the flywheel. It can happen to brakes too, especially when people drive with their foot constantly resting on the brake pedal, and their efficiency is dramatically reduced.
Think of a clutch as two spinning dinner plates having to come together perfectly flat with each other, if one plate has last nights baked beans still attached these high spots touch first but not with enough friction to get everything moving smoothly and it creates judder, glazing reduces grip and again things can't get moving together smoothly and they judder

 

[Daveyboy123]

Glazing occurs if the clutch has been abused, as in slipping when pulling away, we have all witnessed people revving the hell out of a car trying to park or manoeuvre in a tight spot and keeping their foot on the clutch pedal. This puts a glaze on the clutch plates and causes them not to grip the flywheel with any bite, any clutch slipping creates lots of heat and can warp the clutch plates or even worse the flywheel. It can happen to brakes too, especially when people drive with their foot constantly resting on the brake pedal, and their efficiency is dramatically reduced.
Think of a clutch as two spinning dinner plates having to come together perfectly flat with each other, if one plate has last nights baked beans still attached these high spots touch first but not with enough friction to get everything moving smoothly and it creates judder, glazing reduces grip and again things can't get moving together smoothly and they judder

Ah I see thank you for the detailed description. So would you say that if I'm only getting the issue first time I use car in the morning then it may be this but not to bad and that it will be ok going forward or will it or could it get worse?

 

[dilus]

If it disappears quite quickly, it could be as someone else has mentioned be moisture that burns off once the clutch warms up. Providing it doesn't get worse and start lasting longer I could probably live with it. If it does get worse, get it checked out as something is not quite right ”

 

[Daveyboy123]

Yes it disappears fairly quick. I travel about 5 miles in mornings to work and after the first 2 or 3 miles of driving it's absolutely fine.
It's also usually fine when driving home in the eve which makes me think it's where it's standing over night causing condensation maybe on the clutch or flywheel but as you say if it did get worse then I'll take it somewhere to be checked out.

 

[dave1978]

Probably the moisture one - it's like the very light rust coating you get on disc brakes overnight. One or two light pushes on the brakes and everything is nice and smooth.

 

[Daveyboy123]

Yeah I'm leaning towards that as well as doesn't last for ages the judder just annoying when it does but will keep an eye on it.
Still unsure what the noise is though as when stationary or very slow as you lift foot off of clutch gently to pull away or reverse then there's a sort of rubbing sound, almost dull groan which must be clutch related but again wonder if it's just where clutch is damp or could be a slightly noisy release bearing spring but again it's done it since I have had car and doesn't appear to have gotten worse. Edited by: Daveyboy123

 

[dave1978]

My Cee'd Sportwagon makes that sound and has done for a couple of years. Mine only does it when the engine is hot.

The dealer, at the last service, commented that it wasn't uncommon and it would only be a problem if the clutch started slipping. It doesn't, and it takes a steep hill start with ease (and the noise!).Edited by: dave1978

 

[Daveyboy123]

Ah ok well puts my mind at ease then if it seems like it's not uncommon. Many thanks for your responses. Appreciate the help.

 

[Peter79aus]

Ah ok well puts my mind at ease then if it seems like it's not uncommon. Many thanks for your responses. Appreciate the help.

Hi Davey. Just wondering if you ever ended up finding anything else out about this issue. I have just purchased a new Kia Picanto manual and it is doing exactly the same thing. 1st gear is terrible and 2nd does it a little too. The car has only 3000km and has had the issue since day one. My local dealership has asked for me to drive there and recreate the issue which is kinda difficult as it tends to occur when the car is cold.

 

[Mac234]

I have a new Picanto with 1,000 mls on the clock and I also get a little clutch judder first thing in the morning if it's wet. I also drive a Ce'ed in work and that's exactly the same. Both cars are absolutely fine after a few minutes once everything has warmed up.

 

[Adam Cairns]

Clutch judder is caused by 3 things usually. 1) Unevenly worn plates/flywheel 2) Contaminated parts by oil, fluid or dirt 3) Glazing.
As you purchased the car with 9.5k on the clock you can't tell whether the clutch has been abused or not by the previous owner, it could hopefully just be glazed. If as you say it disappears after a short while I would put it down to this. If it gets any worse I would get it checked out. I have had 3 Picanto's from new and under certain circumstances have been able to produce a tiny amount of clutch judder on all 3, usually from cold and pulling out of the first junction and maybe not feeding the clutch in with the perfect revs each time. Other than that all 3 have been fine throughout their time with me and no issues. Anything mechanical that is round and spins needs to be balanced to run smoothly, clutches can magnify any tiny imbalance

See my Venga clutch comment - very similar situation...

 

[Turnup]

I just got back from my dealer - car in for service. They loaned me a Picanto. It was a little juddery for the first couple of times I moved off from stationary but it went away as the car warmed a little. I rarely drive a manual these days so perhaps my technique was less than perfect and I will try to remember to be ultra smooth this afternoon when I take it back, I think this is just one of those things you learn to put up with.