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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone heard of, or had problems with the engine management on their 2.0 diesel? My SW suffers from a diesel knock (sounds like a Transit on steroids) that comes and goes hot or cold. The dealer has been excellent fitting car in at short notice and courtesy car etc,but has now been told by KIA to stop throwing parts at it (had injectors, fuel filter, EGR valve, wiring and air mass meter changed). Engine management computer shows no faults and 50% of the time (usually when in the garage for repair) the car runs perfectly. Fuel consumption drops by 6 mpg when running poorly and acceleration suffers also, but no smoke from exhaust. Getting fed up with it now especially as KIA have said they wont do anything more until they can "see" the fault for themselves. Really needs a good tune up on a rolling road, but don't see why I should pay for that!.







If anyone has any ideas; I would appreciate their input.
 

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what fuel are you useing try using a branded fuel from another garage its not unknown for garages to have water in their tanks and we certainly have seen some funney looking diesel from supermarket pumps
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Viking Paul, I ONLY use branded fuel. Currently Esso, having changed from Shell in case of fuel contamination. No difference noted aftertwo thousand miles! Also the problem can come and go during a day - running perfectly acceptably for perhaps an hour and then suddenly changing to diesel knock, reduced power and an increase in diesel consumption.
 

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Most diesel fuel systems will revert to standard back up settings and perform the way you describe if one of the sensors gives problems. It is almost certainly a sensor or connector issue.


Unfortunately, the computer on these cars doesn't seem great at logging the fault! On my 1.6 I had a known, but rare, issue where sometimes shortly after starting, the engine would cut back to it's "limp home" settings. That turned out to be air in the fuel line causing a momentary drop in fuel pressure. The fuel system knew it & acted, but the computer never logged it!



Although you shouldn't need to, it might be worth contacting a Bosch specialist to see if they can advise as its a fairly standard Bosch system.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
This happens at all revs but is more noticeable at lower revs as its easier to hear the noise. However at higher revs the lack of power and poor fuel consumptionis more apparent.

As to the excellent suggestion about Bosch system; I would prefer KIA to pay for that and if they can't fix my car they should be thinking about inviting Bosch to look at it. ( Trying another tack with KIA at the moment , but will go to Bosch myself soon if no joy with KIA.) Thanks for the idea.Edited by: Retired and content
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Update on my SW:- Took the car for a rolling road check last week, to try and get to the bottom of problem. Garage could not monitor all the outputs from KIA computer onboard, so were unable to confirm exact problem, but did manage to record the"miss-fire or whatever it is".Seems that there is an "issue" with the engine management system as car was logged at 153bhp (138 published by KIA) and was also the same 10% up on torque at 250ft lbs. KIA Technical have gone very quiet and not replied to my dealer??????? Rolling road man said that any diagnostics would be difficult until the reason for the extra bhp/torque is confirmed, so I am stuck again waiting for KIA to find a solution.


Guys;- Has anyone out there had their 2.0 crdi on a rolling road and noted extra power? Any comments appreciated, thanks.
 

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Have you had your kia from new or did you get it second hand?

it's possibile the previous owner may have mapped it, doesn't seem like a big gain from a map tho unless they didn't want much extra power,

There all original parts on your car?
 

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Retired and now Notsocontent
First things first is the vehicle under warranty?
The next question are KIA suggesting they will not repair the vehicle "Until they can see the fault" or is it the dealership ducking out of their responsibility and suggesting KIA don't want to know.
Have you spoken to KIA ? Customer Services, if so what was the reply.
You have a vehicle that is not fit for purpose and does not perform the functions it should.
In any event I would contact KIA on a direct level (COPIES OF LETTERS), listing al the attempts your so called dealer as made to put this vehicle back to an acceptable state no half measures or excuses.
Request a courtesy car and let them effect what ever work needs to be done before you contact Trading Standards.
I get the impression this dealer has no skilled technician that is capable of working on diesel vehicles , he should be honest and involve KIA ON A DIRECT LEVEL.
Looking at the date you first wrote, I wondered if you could update us.
I am sorry I could not reply earlier.
Speak to You Soon
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hi Yesitsmeagain;
Sorry to be so long in reply but been over to France and no internet chez moi.

I can't go down the courtesy car route as KIA won't let it out of the country (UK) - hence can't get to my second home in France. The car is standard, owned by me from new and 9 months old. KIA now say that the readings from the dyno test are what they would expect, as is the map on my ECU.

Have been in touch with KIA on a direct level - like talking to a politician. "We can't fix a fault that isn't there when we have the car in our dealership." I have changed dealership to try and get problem fixed, so let's see where new guys go.........

I managed 120 miles on 19 litres of diesel last week - about 70 miles less than I would expect as a minimum. KIA technical have now asked that I do a fuel test for 60 miles at 60mph and engine hot, with all electrics off (climate control, heated screen etc & full tank to full tank) funnily car now runs better if temperature is below minus 3. I have a view that oil temperature sender is causing problem, but can't monitor it myself - KIA say "no fault found on any ancillaries".



Off to France again at weekend, will update on return. Hopefully car will break down there and then International Rescue will fix it.
 

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Just read this one top to bottom, did the rolling road driver hit the overboost? Could that account for the extra output?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi 1180,
I was watching the test and as far as I could see he just accelerated. He did this by pressing the throttle pedal from driver's seat - don't think my car has a specific overboost button fitted.
 

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I thought but don't know for certian that the overboost was like a kickdown on an automatic. Just press down on he pedal Hard and away you go. Think, but one of the tech types can confirm that it works by raising pressure in the common rail. Murphwiz. Can you confirm or deny?
 

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No overboost that I know of, rolling roads vary though, been on a few, output varies around 30bhp across several rolling roads.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hi murphwiz, I had queried rolling road output and it was confirmed (and I saw sheet technician had left) that rolling road had been recalibrated by Sun? (I think that was the name on bill ) that very morning and thus I believe that it was accurate. KIA seemed to accept that plus 10% output was not unusual.
I still think the ECU thinks engine is cold and is increasing fuel and advancing injection. Temp gauge seems to read OK but oil temperature did show up on rolling road screen as one of the things that machine could read from ECU; whilst on second run the car dieselled and power graph showed a slight drop at 1800 rpm in power and torque. What was surprising was that oil temp dropped 2 degrees during second run and NO visible smoke came from the exhaust, on any run??

Off to chilly France will update on return.
 

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Hi,
First things first I would challenge the courtesy car thing just remind them about the EU the warranty should be EU wide.
I did ask about the ownership of the car, are you the first owner if so REJECT the car without delay.
Ask for a replacement without delay, if the situation then gets to a stage where KIA play difficult you have two routes to pursue.
(1) The SMMT Website is an area you should look at.
KIA are bound by the terms and conditions.( They are committed to the rules, with out exception)
(2) Trading Standards, this vehicle does not comply with the general terms and conditions that apply under the: Sale of Goods Act
By the sound of it you have given KIA every opportunity to correct the problem, notify your finance company about the problems, carry on paying for the vehicle but ask them to intervene.
Start pushing for the result you want, DO NOT DELAY ANY LONGER.
On your letter to KIA Head Office list the detail of your visits to the dealer and list the replies or action taken in order and by date.
Address the letter to the CEO, Recorded Delivery.
State in Your Letter You Will Give them 14 days and then commence proceedings.
All the Best
Keep Us Up To Speed
 

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Has anyone else experienced this?

I have very similar behaviour on my facelifted 1.6 (115) crdi. I also have a 2008 1.6 (115) which sounds completely different (much smoother and quieter). The problem car also displays the higher fuel consumption and lower power that the thread-starter described. My fault also comes and goes. I already have a thread about this here:

http://www.kia-forums.com/kia-ceed-forum/59124-diesel-pinking-pinging-sound.html

Unfortunately I am also in the same warranty position as the thread-starter as i bought the car new in Denmark and exported it to Norway. Have now returned the car to Denmark as Kia Norway didn't want to spend more time on it. Rejecting the car isn't an option as I would lose several thousand pounds of import-duty paid.

Edited by: SW_Sport
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hi again all, problem still ongoing. KIA engineer had vehicle for a day - wrote 5 pages of report and summed up at end of last page to say no faults found, even though he described faults on first page.


I now have an independent report that says vehicle has a pre-injection fault from an injection and fuel pump specialist so with that:-



I am now going to take legal action or just trade the ceed for a VW!! KIA don't seem to want to know and the dealers are worse than useless and their customer care and technical departments are hell bent on not paying anything or admitting they have a fault.



Some ceeds have injector problems caused by cheap Indian-made injectors - mine has an issue with ECU which is very rare and because of this KIA don't recognise it as a "fault".



Hope this helps - "SW sell it quick!!"
 

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HAS YOUR DEALER APPLIED THE VERY LATEST DOWNLOAD TUNE TO YOUR CAR THIS TUNE WAS ISSUED TO DEALERS LAST WEEK SO IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN DONE ON YOUR CAR POINT THEM TOWARDS LAST WEEKS TSB'S REF OVERSPINNING TURBOS
 
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