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Yeah I drove in C for 500 miles. D for 20 miles and then E lol
Cool, thanks for info.

Perhaps hard to say, but soon as you started it in C, did you notice a proper change at all or just very marginal increase, torque on higher gears etc?

Is change progressive step by step or did you get a proper, noticeable bump between the steps and especially the last one, E?

How do you feel about the top end character now, I think my car have astma after initial boost from low to mid and then just flatten out, closer resemblance to revving my old non turbo A class than any of the former turbo cars imho. Not super slow and nothging like a Aygo, non turbo 1.0 Picanto but still the engine clearly do feel down tuned which makes sense considering there is a 120 variant.

Sorry, will know soon enough so could wait but very curious.. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #203 ·
C is a noticeable difference. The turbo effect is smoother but pulls a bit harder. A general smoother feeling drive wirh more power.

D builds on this with an even harder pull.

E the turbo pulls harder and even lower in the revs. Pulling for longer in rev range. I changed gear around 5000k RPM but even then it was pulling hard.
 

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Carbon build up from recycled PCV oil vapour is not removed by the cleaning additives in premium fuel.
Fuel mixture does not enter intake ports to flush/ clean the back of intake valves, as it does with multi port injectors.
With GDI only air passes the intake valve and fuel is added in cylinder.
So how many KM/ Miles are we talking about before it causes a noticeable issue? Will this be such an issue on an inlet valve that is having air forced past it!
 

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So how many KM/ Miles are we talking about before it causes a noticeable issue? Will this be such an issue on an inlet valve that is having air forced past it!
Have not found any specific comments on the Picanto GT engine. How many Km are you up to?
Guess a bore scope examination would be only real way to investigate, (if there are any ports in intake manifold to get a probe in there). Some generic articles say it builds up in only 10,000 Miles ( 16,000 km) but I would think extent of blow back venting and quality of oils (lower flashpoint) would be variable with big effects. Think a catch can that traps oil would be a good preventative measure, just needs frequent checking to drain.
I know some VW GTI engines were prone to similar issues. Inlet valve still gets pretty hot.
CRC do a can of GDI valve cleaner.
 

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Whether that be for purely for gas washing the valves or a more advanced set up utilizing the extra port injectors for low end torque and gradually move more and more towards just direct higher up the rev range.
I think it will be exclusively for washing the valves/intake, it already makes torque impressively low down for the engine/turbo combo.
If Kia wanted to make the driving characteristics better but keep fuel economy good it would probably twin charge it.

But yeah I am fully with you, my dealer may be extra sensitive to mods and hard to deal with, my warranty is now worth even more to me and all thoughts of possibly sacrifice engine warranty for full ECU flash + intake/exhaust swap is long gone haha.
Yes I am especially protective of my warranty, BUT I am majorly disheartened by the way Kia restricted the engine - you can hear the turbo fall off hard after 2000rpm, beyond that and the car pulls super flat to redline. Kia obviously had other plans for the drivetrain but it sounds like they had to meet some kind of economy/emissions target for the city car segment.

I'm getting bored of the power already, previously I had an FG Falcon G6E, I miss the torque of the 4L Inline 6.

My plan now is to do that just that, "hijacking" PCV and add a tank in a way so that I can fast and easy remove the tank and hook on stock tubing again when car go into service aso, other than that I may start regular manual washing, CRC GDi valve/turbo deposit cleaner or similar. Think it's hard to remove a lot once deposits are burnt in properly, but in case of regularly doing it before it build up? Just an idea, next would be water/methanol injection but now it start to become expensive and complicated for a decent system, at least here where I am the good ones are pricey!

That's exactly what I will be doing, I have an inspection camera and will be checking the valves in the near future to see what carbon buildup is like at approx 15,000km.
I don't recommend using spray-in carbon removers, they don't distribute evenly between cylinders, the catch can is definitely the best method and is guaranteed to prevent carbon build up - the only issue is now you have to empty it every couple of months.
 

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Nickyboy, appreciate your view on the differences, I understand as humans we are all different and even experience things differently and all that but I think that if I keep my expectations very low it will be alright. Just nice with some reference point + curious obviously, but if now spooling up early but also keeping charging through the rev range I think that will correct a lot of that flatness to the character I am experiencing, even soft eco driving can pull better at higher gears so could be great, thanks.

Yes joytech22, for sure the oil catch can will be bought and mounted here too, will invest into some inspection camera too. I hear what you say about the cleaner not able to reach all valves/cylinders the same but the one thing this small 3 cyl engine have got speaking for it is the extremely short and "somewhat" straight forward pathway through to intake manifold. Further looking at the cylinder head give an idea hos compact it really is, of course it's a 3 banger so it's understandable the turbo itself is only a old style single scroll but still, this Kappa G3LC turbo manifold have got the turbine housing straight onto it and the exhaust port out from the head is just so strange, cute. 😄

I like the fact that it does look like it will be one simple job to lift the intake manifold at home with engine in place, first I did not like that the engine have got in intake side towards the front I would prefer the exhaust for easy access to turbo, but changed my mind, not like I will try to swap if for some twin scroll T3/T4 anyways, must give up all crazy ideas that hit me every now and then for no good reason other than pure joy, If one looking for some serious power this is not a good platform anyway s cheap, efficient daily driver must stay on top of agenda I suppose.

I hope the catch tank, inspections and a bit of luck can keep this engine from the carbon build up, if on the other end of the spectrum I have no alternative then it must go but only time will tell. What we do know from other direct injected brands, models that history though us is that not all cars everywhere will be the same, geographical location (whether, temperatures), oil quality and how frequent changes etc.. will make a difference the same way you guys in Australia seam to able to hit gas mileage I do not even dear to dream about, I mean not even slightly close to numbers given by some of you. Still trying and gas should be pretty solid quality here, we don't have the cheap low quality fuels here only the 5% ethanol mixtures which will not help but also cannot account for all that difference either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #209 ·
My mk5 Golf GTI Edition 30, remapped to 300bhp, hsd direct injection, and I had no issues in the 3 years and 40k I had it.plus the 25k from the previous owner.
It also ran better on super unleaded, so much so you could tell by the smoothness at idle. A slight rattle on 95.
 

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Yes me too, I don't find the Picanto to grip specifically bad from other front wheel drive vehicles but I have noticed a tendency to just initially spin a couple of revs, but worse feeding into second if there is slightly wet or moist trying to eliminate time loss from throttle lift. It just want to loose traction initially after gear change but not enough to give it a proper spin just ever so lightly but very choppy which I personally almost find worse cause it feels like such a stress on the mechanics up front.
So yes now me too try to be a bit more gentle till I know there is grip, it's a Swedish autumn here now so wet and cold and these stock tires which felt fine just a month ago now behave quite different, must be extra careful onto throttle going around a bend at low speed, barely crawling forward.

Personally I think there is a lot of factors playing in, that carbon build up is a real phenomena may be beyond doubt at this point, but we so many parameters play their part, heck even proper service and using higher quality oils may play a role cause piston rings in best possible shape and all that. Then cold start, before engine is up to temperature tolerances is not quite there due to cold retract/heat expand phenomena, something I see daily in the shop just through my work.

Supposed time will tell, just tried now to search the earlier KIA/Hyundai engine problems, cannot find the first article I read, translated from Korean article that was full of good information. A Google search gave me these problems for 1.6l GDi from some years ago. But I read they recalled a lot of the of the 2 - 2.4l Theta 2, there are better articles just found them on top @ random search for KIA engine problems:


Hyundai/KIA most def had some problems in relation to GDi as well as MPi, harder to dial down info on carbon build up on pure GDi imho, but all manufacturers seam to roll back to MPi in combination with main GDi injectors after some years of GDi so kind od speak for itself I suppose, also heat build up is not our friend in terms on residue burning stuck on valves, path through cylinder head, onto back of valves, but I read they improved cooling around the "problem area" for the cars so positive. Suspect they might be a few years still until we see more about the Kappa G3LC, but the engine concept is older than 2017, 2018 or whenever they started using this in the Picanto so what other cars used the engine, even before our iteration?
 

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Mine is brand new so will go for while and see, mount that catch tank and hope coming inspections show a clean area on intake side? Will be interesting to see when people had these for a while and images from inspections start to come out and start indicate?
 

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Whilst waiting for my car to arrive, I have been going over Kia France and Kia Germany websites on latest 1.0 Turbo specs, for new model Picanto.
It now is clear that the dual injection has not been added to this Turbo engine and it remains GDI only.
The extra injectors are only on the normally aspirated versions of the new Picanto.
 

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Ok, thanks for info, in deed makes sense but a bit sad.

Yes it's irritating to know that only GDi meens carbon build up over time, simply no or at least very few ways around that.
But in all honestly it is alos quite psychological at least for myself, looking at it honestly a few more times make me realize it is not the end of the world cause going to a mechanic and have my intake canals scraped and walnut blasted is not that expensive for this car, due to it's nature, build up and location clearly facing the correct side towards the grille and easy access to inspect and clean.

Here in Sweden it is def more expensive than in the UK (and likely Australia too), they are not everywhere here unlike the bigger countries but can find in Stockholm for about £520 or so, or what I saw online in some forum anyways not checked any closer but even so not that bad considering the distance and years until I need it. Add a catch tank and maybe once per cars life time, but I am speculating...

Box is finally in my car since yesterday, it was a wet cold late autumn/early winter day to install it outside, yuck.
I am technical and worked several mechanic jobs in the past, but I also have very large hands and my patience could be affected if I allow it to get to me haha, let's just say I know what you mean, suspected to be true but now I know what I know lol. Back on hands scraped for sure and yes I had to use 2 way approach. It is a brutally simple task it is anyone can understad and execute just as well as the next or darn close to it I suspect, if were not that darn access, the path to it, boost side that is. When I saw how grille parts attach to each other on the inside I coward a bit and did not pull til I heard any pops at all, just softly add more tension until I could get one hand in the gap then let go and keep one hand there for assistance.
A college tried to reach too for fun, a very tall, big guy with large hands but he had no problem to access it, turn out even long fingers can move in thee tight space but the fat, thick hands of mine do not like it. 😄

Happy it's done, but afraid of the day I need reverse it acute, yuck! o_O To leave harness for service or any kind of visit to mechanic, workshop is not something I will do, honestly I would see that right away hard to hide for any trained eyes used to sweep over same engine build up often, yes harness can he soimewhat swept away, but connector on MAP side cannot and in the open more or less, maybe I am just overly nervous about it? But still will not chance, if they lift the car a hidden harness may be in open suddenly, ahh for me personally I will not but again they are very, very strict where I bought it and will try anything to stick it to me and get away if they can so must play it safer.

Had to stop in middle of the road yesterday, powerful smell build up so fast after a short period of giving it all it has to offer, popped the hood and heard a slight beeping continuous tone at fist, listen to the box directly and but not sound like coming from that, so twisted it a bit and went away, strange?
Smell though, not quite like tortured brakes, but also not quite like burnt clutch so what was it? I mean likely it is on of the 2 in my book cause went away and car did not catch fire or had harness touch something hot, most of really hot side is even on other side.

Took me a while, was so subtle home form work driving mostly normally, cannot say I notice a big difference which makes perfect sense, on the evening out in the cold air properly gunning for it I felt it, 5:th gear only passing cars on highway too can be done slightly better now, still no rocket but noticeable just like described by you members.
Setting E, wanna now.. But going to wait cause recommended to do so, take my time to feel differences in between now and then.
 

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Had to stop in middle of the road yesterday, powerful smell build up so fast after a short period of giving it all it has to offer,
I had this as well but only when the car was under 2000km, it seemed to be a slightly burning smell but it's not new to me. This occured to me on every vehicle I purchased new for the first few thousand k's.

Popped the hood and heard a slight beeping continuous tone at fist, listen to the box directly and but not sound like coming from that, so twisted it a bit and went away, strange?
EDIT: The below info, I was wrong it does not have an electric water pump
I think the Picanto Turbo has an electric water pump that runs for a short while after stopping the engine, my previous car had one and it made the same noises.
 

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Thanks guys, appreciate the info.

Yeah sounds like sweet music to my ears, more is better hehe, E coming up some 200km to go then I flip the setting. 😃

Understand about the low mileage on my car so far, actually had those thoughts too, did throttle hard a few times sure, but did not torture clutch as hard and neither the brakes so was just surprised when nothing, nothing, nothing and then suddenly like driving past a burning building. So had me worried for a sec, great to hear you experienced same or similar things.

The notice I heard today again, if fact I hear it every time I shut the car off, for some seconds and then it goes away. It is def electrical in nature, like a combination between a tone, beep and GPU coil whine on steroids. Now that I know of it I can surely hear it each time, but if unaware I might have missed it before? I cannot tell if there before the box or if coming after and that is a bit irritating, although hard to imagine I have missed it all this time before box montage?

If it is a new noise I would not like it to be honest, but if always there then I would worry less I suppose but if no one else notice this I might have to try bypass plug later and see if any difference? I don't think it come from the box itself though, but since I also am using battery handle as mounting point it is very close to the ECU itself and the area it is coming from.
A bit high pitched very much like that of power regulating circuitry can give off, I suppose could also be a on PCB beeper fed very low voltage so just on the borderline of starting up, feed more power and the signal get cleaner but again I am speculating wildly here have not dialed it it down and even if it in the end turn out to be nothing to worry about, still would be nice to have to it explained either way? Hopefully time will tell, or better yet go away haha..

A assume you beeh using the box for a longer period with no trouble?
 
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