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Hi everyone, this is my first post on the forum but i have used it many times in the past for other issues with my Sportage and i really is a fantastic resource. I need a little help and advice over an issue that so far the dealer has drawn a blank with.

Model: 2.0 KX2 diesel AWD 63 plate 88k miles

the first two winters i owned this car i was very impressed with its handling and ability in the snow even compares to my previous vehicle (nissan x-trail) i used the diff lock a few times to get out of muddy tracks and in the odd wet field but i am far from an off-road driver. in the last 12 months i have noticed a few symptoms; tyre wear has increased significantly, i used to get 30k out of a front set and the car chewed through a new set of high quality tyres in 10k over 3 months, i have also noticed the car losing traction when power is applied, traction control light seems to come on a lot more than it used to and i get inappropriate wheel spin, usually the near side front.

during the last period of snow the car got completely stuck on a small frozen puddle on my driveway, both front wheels were on ice. the car would not move despite the rear wheels being on grit. i could let the clutch fully out and the front near side would just spin, no apparent drive from behind at all. locking the diff made no difference at all. on one occasion i got completely stuck in the snow, the 4x4 warning light flashed when the diff lock was on but then went of very quickly. this has happened a couple of times since when losing traction on uphill grassy slopes.

it had a service last month and nothing could be found, i suggested the 4x4 system was busted but no computer error log was found. i was invited out for a test drive with a technician but lets be honest its going to be very hard to demonstrate in a town center!

they are up for having another look at it and i have made a brief video of it losing traction on some grass but i was just hoping for some other advice before i give it back to them to point them in the right direction, im guessing they dont deal with many 4x4 issues. i am 12k off the end of my warranty and need it sorting by the winter really. im guessing its chewing front tyres as it keeps losing traction due to no rear wheel drive??

sorry for the waffle, any suggestions/help appreciated.

:)


Edited by: MAC957P
 

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I thought rear wheel drive was only employed when it needed to be.
Under normal driving conditions, it would act like a normal 2 wheel drive car.

If this is the case, then you wouldn't experience wheel spin unless you were being aggressive.

although this makes interesting reading.

https://www.lesschwab.com/learn/article/replace-all-4-tires-on-your-awd-vehicle

Is the 10,000 mile wear even. eg, you don't have an alignment issue
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi thanks very much for the reply. Surely the rear wheel drive should kick in when the front loses traction and the computer should pick this up way before you actually feel the wheels spin? My driving style hasn't changed over the period of ownership. It's really worrying, I bought the car to get me around in snow and muddy conditions due to my job. It is now not fit for purpose. I don't really know what to suggest to the dealership either
 

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Firstly might I suggest that you talk about 4WD rather than diff lock - this is an entirely different thing and might be confusing the dealer.
What you describe seems to be symptomatic of failure to engage 4WD. I dunno about your model but mine has a button to lock in 4WD (it disengages again above a certain speed). If you were spinning the fronts on ice then an external observer should be able to also see the rears turning. I would have thought that it would be relatively easy to devise a test that the 4WD engages on the button (assuming that you have one) - either on a slippery surface, or lifted all four wheels off the ground, or perhaps with the fronts on a freewheeling rolling road like the ones used to test brakes? I am sure that Kia must have a method to test that 4WD engages.

Don't worry about the tyre wear. A difference in tyre diameter such as caused by worn fronts is not going to be a problem. You should not use 4WD on anything but a slippy surface (look up "transmission wind up") and if the surface is slippy then this will happily accommodate smalldifferences in wheel diameter. Admittedly if the difference is large then there might be a tendency for the car to detect this as slip and engage 4WD but I suspect that those clever people at Kia allow the car to learn as tyres wear. Anyway this is not the problem you are experiencing.
 

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I think you will find it is the same unit as on Hyundai's. A member on the forum had the same feeling that it was not functioning and took it into dealer. They did their test and said the unit was worn out and they replaced it. So surely Kia should have the same simple test as they are basically mechanically the same cars and would expect both Kia and Hyundai to have the same facilities and training.
I presume you have checked the fuses in the engine compartment fuse boxEdited by: BIRDMAN
 

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As Turnup said the Sportage does not have a conventional 4WD system. You also needn't worry about tyre wear.
The system senses slip and applies torque as required. If your front wheels are spinning and the backs are not driving, it either has an electronic failure or the hydraulic pump is not pumping or the clutches are worn out.
Below are a couple of videos explaining how it works.
I used my previous Sportage in anger quite a few times in real icy slushy road conditions and was suitably impressed.
It's not a true off roader, but it copes well with other than extreme going. (I should also add I was using winter tyres)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JAdd4L1n-XQ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBtfu4-9m0
 

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Do you think it's advisable to change the transmission oil regularly along with the diff oil? I changed the auto transmission oil on my vectra every 2 years on advice from a independent Vauxhall mech.
 

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I'm in South Africa. My 2013 Kia, which I've owned from new and has less than 90k km on it, has recently only been driving through the front wheels - something I discovered trying to ascend a sandy driveway. There there was no indicator showing that the AWD had failed. Kia diagnosed that the transfer case and diff is stripped with a repair cost of ±GBP 4k and 1 month wait for parts.

I think this should be a warning to people looking to buy a used AWD Sportage, check that the rear wheels are engaging otherwise you are in for a massive repair bill. I suspect there are many out there on the roads blissfully unaware of the issue (as the vehicle drives just fine in front wheel drive).

I've owned the car from new and know that it has hardly ever been off the tar roads. Such a major failure just outside of the 5 year warranty is highly disappointing. I will not buy another Kia or Hyundai. Period.
 

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How do you know that the rear drive is not working ,its,fairly basic in that there is,no difficult lock so it's not really all 4 wheel drive and it does disengage past 20+ mph.
 

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We have a 4WD KX-3 Crdi Auto. Our local dealer says our 4WD is inoperative, fault code p1832 (clutch thermal overstress shutdown) stored, suspected coupling fault due to difference in front and rear tyre treads. We didn’t know about the apparent need to change all 4 tyres or at least keep less than 3mm difference in tread. It isn’t in the manual as far as I can see! I rang Kia Customer Service and they couldn’t find it in the manual either. So we are pretty unhappy about this. Kia say is will cost £1953 to repair.
I assume the guidance in this link applies. https://www.lesschwab.com/article/replace-all-4-tires-on-your-awd-vehicle.html
 

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We have a 4WD KX-3 Crdi Auto. Our local dealer says our 4WD is inoperative, fault code p1832 (clutch thermal overstress shutdown) stored, suspected coupling fault due to difference in front and rear tyre treads. We didn’t know about the apparent need to change all 4 tyres or at least keep less than 3mm difference in tread. It isn’t in the manual as far as I can see! I rang Kia Customer Service and they couldn’t find it in the manual either. So we are pretty unhappy about this. Kia say is will cost £1953 to repair.
I assume the guidance in this link applies. https://www.lesschwab.com/article/replace-all-4-tires-on-your-awd-vehicle.html
Happy to report it was fixed under warranty. Well done Kia.
 

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We have a 4WD KX-3 Crdi Auto. Our local dealer says our 4WD is inoperative, fault code p1832 (clutch thermal overstress shutdown) stored, suspected coupling fault due to difference in front and rear tyre treads. We didn’t know about the apparent need to change all 4 tyres or at least keep less than 3mm difference in tread. It isn’t in the manual as far as I can see! I rang Kia Customer Service and they couldn’t find it in the manual either. So we are pretty unhappy about this. Kia say is will cost £1953 to repair.
I assume the guidance in this link applies. https://www.lesschwab.com/article/replace-all-4-tires-on-your-awd-vehicle.html


The article in the link is nearly correct. The KIA AWD system (apart from the earlier Sorrentos) normally drives the fronts, so if the fronts are worn more than the backs it will falsely detect front wheel spin and engage 4WD. However if the rears are worn more than the fronts then this will not be interpreted as wheel spin (since the rears are not driven they cannot spin) and all will be well. Keep the better tyres on the front and this will not lead to drivetrain problems.


Notwithstanding the above, there is one small fly in the ointment in that some pundits recommend that the better tyres should always be on the rear to avoid the possibility of the rears losing grip before the fronts when cornering, leading to oversteer. Speaking personally I find oversteer much more instinctive to control than understeer and I fail to understand why one is seen as worse than the other. It is of course entirely possible that this "advice" is not up to date with modern AWD systems and just gets repeated when it should be looked at again. If you prefer to accept such advice then you will need to change all four tyres approximately every 10,000 miles - gentlemen faites vos jeux.


Nearly all modern cars have a built in slight tendency towards understeer but this has nothing to do with cornering skid control. Slight understeer greatly increases longitudinal stability at speed making it much harder to induce what the motorcyclists call "a tank slapper" or flyers call "pilot induced oscillation". Plenty of examples of this on the Russian dashcam videos.
 

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When you say change Turnup do you mean rotate, as in front to back. Or are you referring to the perfect world where we would bin all 4 and start again?

I rotated at about 12K and I'm now on 18K and the fronts are about the same tread depth as the rear.
 

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When you say change Turnup do you mean rotate, as in front to back. Or are you referring to the perfect world where we would bin all 4 and start again?

I rotated at about 12K and I'm now on 18K and the fronts are about the same tread depth as the rear.

What I mean is that if you accept the advice that the best tyres should be on the rear, then the fronts will wear down and you can't swap them to the rear because that would put the best tyres on the front. So the only option is to replace all four before the AWD falsely detects front wheel spin, engages and wrecks the drive train soon after.


I think this is daft so I too swap the fronts for the rears at abut 10k - just trying to illustrate the flaws in that advice.
 

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Indeed there are flaws.
To be fair the industry advice of putting the best tyres on the rear is based on extreme limits. To loose the rear end would require an extreme amount of oversteer to induce a breakaway.
 

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Regarding differential front/rear tyre wear, the Handbook covers this by scheduling tyre rotation every 7000 miles for AWD models. So, a pain in the butt for many of us less able fellows.
 
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