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I can't comment about the pros and cons of manual transmission v DCT in that model but I know which one I would choose, based on recent experience in my own car and in a rented Citroen model similarly equipped but only a 6-speed DCT.
So we are not supposed to be talking about the differences of the 6 speed and 7 speed autos :shrug:
 

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Something I found on the net today about the 7 sp DCT!]
Which one would you recommend then?

Personally, I doubt many drivers would be disappointed by the 6-speeder in isolation (compared to manual) but would probably notice a slight improvement by 'stepping up' to a 7-speeder.

I have just noticed that I erroneously referred to my recent experience in a Citroen 6-speed auto over about 1500 kilometres as being a DCT - it was a regular torque converter model! Nice though, albeit juicy!

Interestingly, my car is a 7-speed model and when I read reviews of the PHEV model that I considered at the time I purchased mine, it had only a 6-speed version and that remains the case today. That certainly didn't put me off the PHEV and it's a model I shall look at again if I decide to replace my current one.

I'm left to wonder what the OP's views are on the matter but I suspect that had he purchased a KIA model, we would have heard further from him.
 

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WE don't get the same choice of cars down here. You either need to buy the lower Sport model with 6speed auto and 1.4 motor or the GT line with 1.0 Turbo and 7 speed DCT.

I never realised the DCT was a manual gearbox with just automatic clutch and gear change solenoids:surprise:. Due to the way I like my Picanto turbo, just need to take both versions for a test drive and see how it goes (misus wants an auto if we replace our GT Line Picanto).
 

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WE don't get the same choice of cars down here. You either need to buy the lower Sport model with 6speed auto and 1.4 motor or the GT line with 1.0 Turbo and 7 speed DCT.

I never realised the DCT was a manual gearbox with just automatic clutch and gear change solenoids:surprise:. Due to the way I like my Picanto turbo, just need to take both versions for a test drive and see how it goes (misus wants an auto if we replace our GT Line Picanto).
DCT is basically more economic and torque converter is usually more refined. My experience of the Peugeot torque converters of 308 series and Korean DCT:s is that the DCT is smoother and Peugeot torque converter is quite notchy due to economy I'm sure.

I urge to test drive all the options, you really can't tell before a test drive only looking at the technical specifications.
 

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Torque converter auto's have all had a habit of being indecisive about the gear needed on occasions and when you need to get moving such as when entering a roundabout this can be potentially dangerous.

Try the 8-speed ZF in a modern BMW. No indecision with it. Superb gearbox.




DSG's (all VAG) are not smooth on the changes and are very difficult to control when parking since there is no creep (and I hate left foot braking as suggested as a way to control the things at low speed).

My DSG GTI creeps.
 

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Hi i notice that the rio gt line dct does not get the paddles on the steering wheel which i think is a shame as in seat fr i had i liked to use them sometimes has anyone noticed that in gt line ceed dct they do get the paddles but not on the other auto dcts so the rio i presume you push the lever forwards or back in manual mode is that right.
 

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Some people's expectations are such that no auto transmission will satisfy their demand for an exact replication of their favoured stick-ship responses but to blame the car….? Remember the adage: 'A bad workman always blames his tools'?
It has been adequately demonstrated that drivers critical of automatics are usually blind to the imperfections they put into the system. After owning an auto for a few years, it is interesting to be the passenger in a manual and discover how crude that feels even with a decent driver.

There is certainly an element that the designers that determine the shift points (which is completely independent of transmission type), are not gods with the psychic powers to know what the individual driver wants.
 

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In 45 years of driving I have had the "pleasure" of driving most types of autos and have to say there is only one I have actually thought OK.
45 years ago, autos just used a crude vacuum/centrifugal controller to set the shift points. There can be no comparison to a modern electronic/software controlled box with more (and better) engine and road sensors and an ability to adjust to patterns of driver demand.
 

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There is certainly an element that the designers that determine the shift points (which is completely independent of transmission type), are not gods with the psychic powers to know what the individual driver wants.
That's undoubtedly true. The beauty of DCT, however, is that the driver can very simply switch to manual mode and ensure that gear changes occur exactly when required. That both VAG and Ford have persevered with their efforts at producing this form of automated transmission displays confidence in the technology in spite of their somewhat crude and unreliable first efforts.

Although the modern Borg-Warner type box is a world apart from the auto boxes available in the UK in the 1960s, producing much improved fuel economy, I think the DCT, for reasons you have mentioned, is the obvious way forward for manufacturers of bulk-sales family cars and sporting variants.

With further development of electric vehicle technology, of course, all things may change. How long it will take drivers to change their approach to gear-changing, particularly with the era of driverless cars fast approaching, is another question though!
 

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DCT's tend to be favoured by manufacturers over fluid Torque converter auto's because they improve the fuel economy figures.
In terms of low speed driveabilty, the fluid TQ auto is much more superior.
 

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That's undoubtedly true. The beauty of DCT, however, is that the driver can very simply switch to manual mode and ensure that gear changes occur exactly when required. That both VAG and Ford have persevered with their efforts at producing this form of automated transmission displays confidence in the technology in spite of their somewhat crude and unreliable first efforts.
You can have manual override in whatever transmission type you have.

I hired a Toyota in New Zealand for two weeks with a CVT and what felt like a TC clutch (which locked out between 5-10mph). It was absolutely superb. Drive normally, below 4000rpm and it was infinitely variable. Give it some welly and it pretended to be a 7 speed, as it did in manual mode. It was the most perfect transmission possible, continuously altering the revs to provide the power (and drag on downhills) needed to maintain a constant speed on cruise control. On undulating roads, none of the hesitate, lurch, go of a stepped box.

The problem with CVT was that someone tried it in F1 and it got banned. So they had to come up with something crappy enough to stay in the rules. Thus DCT was invented. And the public think something moving from F1 to the road must be wonderful.

So what have I got? An i20 with DCT. I know it's not a Kia Rio but the differences are only cosmetic. I hope it doesn't upset anybody on this forum. I started here when I had a Ceed and the Kia forums seem to be a lot more active.

(Incidentally, Ford have binned DCT.)
 

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You can have manual override in whatever transmission type you have.

I hired a Toyota in New Zealand for two weeks with a CVT and what felt like a TC clutch (which locked out between 5-10mph). It was absolutely superb. Drive normally, below 4000rpm and it was infinitely variable. Give it some welly and it pretended to be a 7 speed, as it did in manual mode. It was the most perfect transmission possible, continuously altering the revs to provide the power (and drag on downhills) needed to maintain a constant speed on cruise control. On undulating roads, none of the hesitate, lurch, go of a stepped box.

The problem with CVT was that someone tried it in F1 and it got banned. So they had to come up with something crappy enough to stay in the rules. Thus DCT was invented. And the public think something moving from F1 to the road must be wonderful.

So what have I got? An i20 with DCT. I know it's not a Kia Rio but the differences are only cosmetic. I hope it doesn't upset anybody on this forum. I started here when I had a Ceed and the Kia forums seem to be a lot more active.

(Incidentally, Ford have binned DCT.)
Spot on Sir!

Kia designers if you do read these forums (which I hope you do) this is the way to go. Ditch the DCT.
The DCT is fundamentally flawed at low speeds, because it tries to predict what the driver is going to do in the near future. And NO one can predict the future - so 30% of the time it will be wrong and get it's kn1ckers in a twist.

That Australian bloke (JC) calls it the Ford PowerSh#t. :grin:
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Demon View Post
(Incidentally, Ford have binned DCT.) Incidentally VAG have also binned the 1.5tsi engine from their range after less than 2yrs because of so many issues that could not be resolved and that’s after dieselgate.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Demon View Post
(Incidentally, Ford have binned DCT.) Incidentally VAG have also binned the 1.5tsi engine from their range after less than 2yrs because of so many issues that could not be resolved and that’s after dieselgate.
It is well known that the VW group have issues with the 1.5 TSi engine - a tendency to kangaroo when cold - but I do not think that they have as yet "binned" it. Some reports say that they are working on a software update to address the issue. That engine is still showing as an option on the VW and Skoda vehicle configurators for appropriate cars.
 

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Spot on Sir!
Thank you
Kia designers if you do read these forums (which I hope you do) this is the way to go. Ditch the DCT.
The DCT is fundamentally flawed at low speeds, because it tries to predict what the driver is going to do in the near future. And NO one can predict the future - so 30% of the time it will be wrong and get it's kn1ckers in a twist.
It's not that bad. If you're at constant speed or rolling along off the pedal, the only possible next step is a down shift. Not a difficult guess. The only thing it can't predict is whether your new demand will require 1, 2 or 3 down shifts. It is still significantly faster at getting the power back on after an unanticipated shift than a human. It is also quicker than a diesel with turbo lag or a small, peaky old-tech petrol engine that's typically useless below 2500rpm. The problem with a human is that it doesn't notice how long it takes to do something but it does notice how long something (or someone) else takes to do it.

It's possible my requirements are suited to auto because even with a manual I prefer to shift on demand rather than keep revs up speculatively.

Having said that, a bugbear I have with most autos (a software issue, nothing to do with the hardware) is that they set a low rev limit. That's ok in auto but it annoys me that it can't be overridden in manual. Let me go down to 1000rpm and override hill descent, when I choose, please. I dislike going down gentle slopes in an excessively low gear and be forced to drive it to maintain speed instead of gliding down.
 

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Sorry to say but this sounds like a load of rubbish.
Aren't you the person who said that it was impossible to take legal action against anyone for warranty work because you don't know who was responsible for the warranty........that was laughable.

The DCT is dangerous because it is NOT 100% predictable. Sometimes it works ok, and sometimes it lets you down very badly.

It's not the slowness that makes it's dangerous, but the fact that it is not consistent.
Aircraft nothing in life is predicable as we are about to find out with this Corona virus, I have had my Rio DCT over a year now and have no problems with it at all, I drive gently and anticipate the road ahead so all nice and smooth for me.
 

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DCT's tend to be favoured by manufacturers over fluid Torque converter auto's because they improve the fuel economy figures.
In terms of low speed driveabilty, the fluid TQ auto is much more superior.
I totally agree with you on that one, of course fluid autos are better creeping but in my humble opinion as that is only a small percentage of driving time anything over 5 MPH the DCT is faster responding and more alive to drive. If anyone is purely driving in traffic jams yes go for a fluid box.
 

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I have had my Rio DCT over a year now and have no problems with it at all, I drive gently and anticipate the road ahead so all nice and smooth for me.
Nice to finally see someone who owns one of these actually commenting in this thread (y)

It seems the new MY 21 update will give me the choice to test drive a GT Line with DCT and the Sport with 6 speed Auto as we never had the choice before in AU. Just waiting on confirmation when stock will be available at the dealers.
 
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