Kia Owners Club Forum banner

21 - 40 of 71 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
973 Posts
The Dual Clutch Transmission is very good at quick gear shifts, and there isn't really an issue at high speeds.

The problem with the DCT is the low speed & crawling situations/operations.
Reversing up an incline.
And when approaching roundabouts, where there can be a dangerous delay whilst the DCT makes up its mind.
Delivering the power is a consistent and predictable manner every time (especially at low speeds).

These are the things Kia need to sort out.
A lot of Kia DCT's for sale where the owner has had it for less than a year and got rid, because they are unable to live with these issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
The Dual Clutch Transmission is very good at quick gear shifts, and there isn't really an issue at high speeds.

The problem with the DCT is the low speed & crawling situations/operations.
Reversing up an incline.
And when approaching roundabouts, where there can be a dangerous delay whilst the DCT makes up its mind.
Delivering the power is a consistent and predictable manner every time (especially at low speeds).

These are the things Kia need to sort out.
A lot of Kia DCT's for sale where the owner has had it for less than a year and got rid, because they are unable to live with these issues.
Sorry aircraft but I have to take issue with some of your comments.

I have no problems with my DCT and I came to DCT from 45 years of manuals. I wouldn't go back.
I admit getting used to the way DCT works was a tad more difficult than that experienced when changing manuals (different clutch bite points, reverse gear operation etc) but once used to it I find no problems. I have no problems at roundabouts and even crawling traffic isn't difficult. It just requires a bit more anticipation of the traffic movement.
DCT/DSG gearboxes work differently from manuals (can't comment about TG Autos as never had one but expect the same applies) and can't be expected to have no differences in use. There is a very good 'John Cadogan' video on YouTube which I have posted in other model sections of the Kia OC forum which I recommend to anyone who doesn't understand how a DCT works and how to use them effectively.

Just my point of view of course.

I certainly don't subscribe to the view that it is something KIA, as opposed to any other manufacturer, needs to 'sort out'
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
I feel the same as drwho2 too,I saw the soul sport and liked everything about it and after over 50yrs of manuals was prepared to accept any downside of a DSG/DCT,but I have to say after a year of ownership it all works really well in all driving conditions and the only point I can recognise from AIRCRAFTS post is reversing up inclines on one occasion but in general everyday use over the last year it’s been a joy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
Hi im a newbee to this site and interested in the kia gt line dct can you tell me if it has a manual mode to take control of the 7 speeds.
The quick answer is yes. DCT or DSG boxes are 'semi automatic'. This means you can just use it in auto (drive) mode or slip into 'manual/sequential' and decide gear changes yourself.

Google DCT/DSG v Manual gearboxes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
973 Posts
I've driven a couple of Optima's where the DCT has been totally unpredictable (on occasions) in the way it delivers the power to the wheels.
The engine revs go up as you press the accelerator (and you can hear the engine racing), but there isn't a corresponding increase in the speed of the car. It's very worrying when you are turning right and there are cars racing towards you.
Dangerous!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,229 Posts
The quick answer is yes. DCT or DSG boxes are 'semi automatic'. This means you can just use it in auto (drive) mode or slip into 'manual/sequential' and decide gear changes yourself.

Google DCT/DSG v Manual gearboxes

I can't figure out what "semi-auto" actually means. Every auto box of whatever design has some means to manually determine the drive ratio. They vary in the degree of control offered and this is also true for the KIA DCT box. Put it in manual mode and using either the stick or the paddles select 1 and floor it. With the exception of the latest Stingers, they will change into 2nd etc. before you hit the rev limiter regardless of what you do with the stick or paddles as long as you have the pedal down. This would seem to be more automatic than all of the TC boxes I have driven which will stay in the manually selected gear come what may (can't speak for the KIA TC auto 'cos I have never driven one nor is my experience with TC autos vast but I can think of at least 5 which offer varying degrees of manual gear selection).


Drwho2, please give examples of "semi-auto" boxes and "full auto" boxes and help me to understand the distinction in behaviour or in user controls. I would be particularly interested in the identity of any auto which offers no manual control. This may seem overly pedantic but I believe that terminology needs to be precise in order that people can have a meaningful dialogue and I really don't get what the term "semi auto" implies over simply "auto".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
I can't figure out what "semi-auto" actually means. Every auto box of whatever design has some means to manually determine the drive ratio. They vary in the degree of control offered and this is also true for the KIA DCT box. Put it in manual mode and using either the stick or the paddles select 1 and floor it. With the exception of the latest Stingers, they will change into 2nd etc. before you hit the rev limiter regardless of what you do with the stick or paddles as long as you have the pedal down. This would seem to be more automatic than all of the TC boxes I have driven which will stay in the manually selected gear come what may (can't speak for the KIA TC auto 'cos I have never driven one nor is my experience with TC autos vast but I can think of at least 5 which offer varying degrees of manual gear selection).


Drwho2, please give examples of "semi-auto" boxes and "full auto" boxes and help me to understand the distinction in behaviour or in user controls. I would be particularly interested in the identity of any auto which offers no manual control. This may seem overly pedantic but I believe that terminology needs to be precise in order that people can have a meaningful dialogue and I really don't get what the term "semi auto" implies over simply "auto".
Turnup, I am only using terminology that i have read in motoring articles and reviews that relate to DTC/DSG boxes. As to whether that terminology is 'precise' I can't comment. And yes I do fell you are being overly pedantic!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,229 Posts
Turnup, I am only using terminology that i have read in motoring articles and reviews that relate to DTC/DSG boxes. As to whether that terminology is 'precise' I can't comment. And yes I do fell you are being overly pedantic!

OK perhaps I am. Speaking personally I reserve the term for the truly horrible "automated manual" boxes and have seen it in that context in the motoring press too. Single clutch and a conventional manual type gearbox but which is operated (clutch and ratio selection) automatically. I had (IIRC) a Corsa three pot as a loaner during servicing and it was a complete disaster. Really really slow to change, clunky and harsh, often got it wrong, and hopeless pickup when bumbling up to a junction and trying to nip out. Some folk complain about the KIA DCT for this (and I too think that it could be better) but it is far superior to the Corsa and I have head similar comments regarding other manufacturers of that ilk. Perhaps those articles were not referring to that type of transmission?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
519 Posts
From the DVLA licensing point of view, it seems the difference is whether or not there is a clutch pedal. If there is, it’s manual and if there isn’t it’s automatic.
And of course there was the CVT, which had no gears at all!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
988 Posts
In 45 years of driving I have had the "pleasure" of driving most types of autos and have to say there is only one I have actually thought OK.

Torque converter auto's have all had a habit of being indecisive about the gear needed on occasions and when you need to get moving such as when entering a roundabout this can be potentially dangerous.

CVT's have the annoying habit of revving to the red line when you press the loud pedal with no initial attempt to increase speed, again potentially dangerous.

DSG's (all VAG) are not smooth on the changes and are very difficult to control when parking since there is no creep (and I hate left foot braking as suggested as a way to control the things at low speed).

The decent one was a Hondamatic from the early 80's dad had. It was a torque converter type but it did not change gear automatically. The selector was marked P (park) R (reverse) N (Neutral) OD (overdrive) * (star) and L (low). Never used L. Selected * unless you were on the open road when you selected OD. For overtaking simply pull the selector back to * (if you were in OD) and floor it. No waiting for the **** thing to think about what gear it needed, just decent acceleration.

Several people I know who had them all loved them (even those who had the early version without OD). 100% reliable as you would expect from Honda.

I suspect it did not survive since it needed some driver input and most want an auto to be, shall we say, automatic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
973 Posts
In 45 years of driving I have had the "pleasure" of driving most types of autos and have to say there is only one I have actually thought OK.

Torque converter auto's have all had a habit of being indecisive about the gear needed on occasions and when you need to get moving such as when entering a roundabout this can be potentially dangerous.

CVT's have the annoying habit of revving to the red line when you press the loud pedal with no initial attempt to increase speed, again potentially dangerous.

DSG's (all VAG) are not smooth on the changes and are very difficult to control when parking since there is no creep (and I hate left foot braking as suggested as a way to control the things at low speed).

The decent one was a Hondamatic from the early 80's dad had. It was a torque converter type but it did not change gear automatically. The selector was marked P (park) R (reverse) N (Neutral) OD (overdrive) * (star) and L (low). Never used L. Selected * unless you were on the open road when you selected OD. For overtaking simply pull the selector back to * (if you were in OD) and floor it. No waiting for the **** thing to think about what gear it needed, just decent acceleration.

Several people I know who had them all loved them (even those who had the early version without OD). 100% reliable as you would expect from Honda.

I suspect it did not survive since it needed some driver input and most want an auto to be, shall we say, automatic.
Sorry to say but this sounds like a load of rubbish.
Aren't you the person who said that it was impossible to take legal action against anyone for warranty work because you don't know who was responsible for the warranty........that was laughable.

The DCT is dangerous because it is NOT 100% predictable. Sometimes it works ok, and sometimes it lets you down very badly.

It's not the slowness that makes it's dangerous, but the fact that it is not consistent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
I've driven a couple of Optima's where the DCT has been totally unpredictable (on occasions) in the way it delivers the power to the wheels.
The engine revs go up as you press the accelerator (and you can hear the engine racing), but there isn't a corresponding increase in the speed of the car. It's very worrying when you are turning right and there are cars racing towards you.
Dangerous!
Maybe it actually isn't the DCT that's dangerous but the driver who obviously knows other vehicles are coming towards him quickly but still feels the need to pull out irrespective of the approaching speed of the other vehicles?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
451 Posts
I've driven a couple of Optima's where the DCT has been totally unpredictable (on occasions) in the way it delivers the power to the wheels.
The engine revs go up as you press the accelerator (and you can hear the engine racing), but there isn't a corresponding increase in the speed of the car. It's very worrying when you are turning right and there are cars racing towards you.
Dangerous![/QUOTE

I totally agree with aircraft, I had the same issues with my optima and changed it after 6 months, the Niro we had was great with DCT box but the optima sw was dangerous at times, I had an optima with a tc box when it first came out and loved it but not the DCT box I'm afraid also had a situation doing 70 on the motorway on cruise and for no reason it dropped to 5th and then back up to 7th, this happened more than once dealer checked it and software no issues found?
 
  • Like
Reactions: aircraft

·
Registered
Joined
·
988 Posts
Sorry to say but this sounds like a load of rubbish.
Aren't you the person who said that it was impossible to take legal action against anyone for warranty work because you don't know who was responsible for the warranty........that was laughable.
Not me.

Check your facts before accusing me of such a load of nonsense.

Do that again and I will report you to the moderators. But if they are doing their job properly one or more will be reading this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,305 Posts
the optima sw was dangerous at times
I'm sorry, 'kiaman' but I don't buy that at all! The KIA Optima is the safest car I have ever owned.

First, you make an allegation but don't explain the reason for it. I would expect that if the Optima DSG were in fact dangerous, it would have been broadcast all over the motoring press, TV and would have been the subject of a class action in the hands of fancy solicitors. The media and lawyers love that kind of thing…….Vauxhalls, fridges and washing machines, etc, catching fire!

There has been no significant damning publicity about the model; indeed, most road testers and reviewers both UK-based and on mainland Europe rate it highly. As mentioned by another correspondent, possibly in another thread, there are drivers who have no empathy with the kind of technology involved and simply fail to learn how to drive KIA DSG-equipped cars.

The same kind of complaints arise with CVT-equipped cars and again, it is because some drivers fail to grasp what is going on with the transmission and want it to respond exactly as a stick-shift. Lexus/Toyota/Subaru et all…..are they all wrong or is it just that some drivers refuse to adapt their driving technique to suit?

In short, those who cannot get on with DSG, or with CVT for that matter, don't know how to drive them! Driven correctly, the KIA DSG is a smooth gearbox which can propel the car fairly rapidly from a standing start to whatever speed you desire. Unfortunately, some drivers cannot seem to understand how the vehicle will react in an overtaking situation and insist on pressing the pedal to the metal, causing the gearbox, with the car already accelerating, preparing to pass a slower vehicle, to drop more than one gear with the accompanying high revs. That is no different from driving a manual car and while preparing to overtake, changing from 6th to 2nd.

Some people's expectations are such that no auto transmission will satisfy their demand for an exact replication of their favoured stick-ship responses but to blame the car….? Remember the adage: 'A bad workman always blames his tools'?

The bottom line to this is that there are thousands of Optima DSG owners perfectly happy with their cars and enjoying the clutchless transmission. It is quite possible to drive the car with full manual control of gear selection therefore it is entirely possible to make gearchanges at whatever moment even the most demanding driver might wish.

DSG is not inherently dangerous but some drivers are!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
I'm sorry, 'kiaman' but I don't buy that at all! The KIA Optima is the safest car I have ever owned.

First, you make an allegation but don't explain the reason for it. I would expect that if the Optima DSG were in fact dangerous, it would have been broadcast all over the motoring press, TV and would have been the subject of a class action in the hands of fancy solicitors. The media and lawyers love that kind of thing…….Vauxhalls, fridges and washing machines, etc, catching fire!

There has been no significant damning publicity about the model; indeed, most road testers and reviewers both UK-based and on mainland Europe rate it highly. As mentioned by another correspondent, possibly in another thread, there are drivers who have no empathy with the kind of technology involved and simply fail to learn how to drive KIA DSG-equipped cars.

The same kind of complaints arise with CVT-equipped cars and again, it is because some drivers fail to grasp what is going on with the transmission and want it to respond exactly as a stick-shift. Lexus/Toyota/Subaru et all…..are they all wrong or is it just that some drivers refuse to adapt their driving technique to suit?

In short, those who cannot get on with DSG, or with CVT for that matter, don't know how to drive them! Driven correctly, the KIA DSG is a smooth gearbox which can propel the car fairly rapidly from a standing start to whatever speed you desire. Unfortunately, some drivers cannot seem to understand how the vehicle will react in an overtaking situation and insist on pressing the pedal to the metal, causing the gearbox, with the car already accelerating, preparing to pass a slower vehicle, to drop more than one gear with the accompanying high revs. That is no different from driving a manual car and while preparing to overtake, changing from 6th to 2nd.

Some people's expectations are such that no auto transmission will satisfy their demand for an exact replication of their favoured stick-ship responses but to blame the car….? Remember the adage: 'A bad workman always blames his tools'?

The bottom line to this is that there are thousands of Optima DSG owners perfectly happy with their cars and enjoying the clutchless transmission. It is quite possible to drive the car with full manual control of gear selection therefore it is entirely possible to make gearchanges at whatever moment even the most demanding driver might wish.

DSG is not inherently dangerous but some drivers are!
Well said Indalo and I couldn't agree more!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
546 Posts
Is it normal to get so much of topic in these forums?

Im looking into the RIO GT Line version we have available but having little experience with Autos I though some experiences from others might give me some ideas before going for a test drive.

Guess i will have to watch a few more of the car reveiwer videos as i dont think the OP question has been answered by to many of these posts!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,305 Posts
Is it normal to get so much of topic in these forums?
I take your point, 'BAWITHLOT', that the responses were not quite what the OP was asking about. Having said that, those who gave opinion on DCT but on other models were no doubt trying to assist by appraising the OP of the system's operation in their particular models. I note, however, that the original post was dated December 2018 and the OP does not appear to have returned to the forum.

The discussion did rather veer away completely when, at post #21, a well-known, serial whinger on DCT, KIA warranty and KIA dealers, decided to contribute his usual complaint.

I can't comment about the pros and cons of manual transmission v DCT in that model but I know which one I would choose, based on recent experience in my own car and in a rented Citroen model similarly equipped but only a 6-speed DCT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
973 Posts
Not me.

Check your facts before accusing me of such a load of nonsense.

Do that again and I will report you to the moderators. But if they are doing their job properly one or more will be reading this.
Your post, need I say more, laughable:-

"That means as well as not having any legal contract with Kia UK you do not have a contract with the Kia dealer you have taken the car to thus you cannot make a claim against either of them.

The only person you can make a smalls claims court claim against is the independent dealer you bought the car from and after 18 months he has no legal liability since the law says 6 months unless you can prove the defect was present when you bought the car. In simple terms he would argue that if a visible defect had been present you would surely have asked them to do something when you bought it or within the 6 month period."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
988 Posts
Your post, need I say more:-

"That means as well as not having any legal contract with Kia UK you do not have a contract with the Kia dealer you have taken the car to thus you cannot make a claim against either of them.

The only person you can make a smalls claims court claim against is the independent dealer you bought the car from and after 18 months he has no legal liability since the law says 6 months unless you can prove the defect was present when you bought the car. In simple terms he would argue that if a visible defect had been present you would surely have asked them to do something when you bought it or within the 6 month period."
I know its off topic but I need to defend myself.

Everything there is correct.

The buyers contract is with the dealer (Kia or otherwise) they bought it from.

How can you have a contract with any Kia dealer if you have not bought the car from them. You cannot take any Kia dealer to court if you did not buy the car from one.

No buyer has a contract with Kia even if they buy a new car from a Kia dealer, the contract is with the dealer thus you cannot take Kia to court. The Kia dealer would have to involve Kia if you rejected the car or disputed decisions.

However, for warranty although work Kia are ultimately responsible for the cost (its a manufacturers warranty after all) only a Kia dealer can carry out work under the T & C's of the warranty. They may need authorisation for this depending of cost. When we had a A/C failure authorisation was obtained the same day for over £400 of work. If any work has not been carried out by a Kia dealer proof would probably be required but all receipts should be retained like it says in the warranty T & C's.

It may be different with Kia Bolton (since they seem to be owned by Kia) but if they are registered as a separate entity the same applies as above. However, the communication chain should be shorter.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 your rights are against the seller of whatever it was you bought and not the manufacturer. That is the law. Any claim made against the incorrect part would be a waste of time and doomed to failure.
 
21 - 40 of 71 Posts
Top