Kia Owners Club Forum banner
1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm hoping someone can help me with where I go with this. I have had my KIA CEED for 6 months, it's a 2021 ex-demo with 7900 miles on the dash. I got an email from KIA about a software update to the Hybrid system and I was to book it into the main dealer. I had previously purchased a service plan for the car and as it was going in for the update I also booked the first service. I took the car to Arnold Clark Kia in Glasgow on 15/04/22 and was told it would be back with me later that day. I was called 5 hours later to be told there had been a problem with the update. It was then explained to me that the mechanic doing the work pulled the plug out of the car halfway through the update as it had frozen. This caused a couple of the super chips to blow on the car and they would have to order them, with no date of arrival. I then asked for a courtesy car as this was the garage's fault, but they refused and said it was KIA's software fault. I got in touch with KIA and guess what, they wouldn't give me a loan car either as they said it's not their policy to give out courtesy cars.I went back to Arnold Clark and they said as a goodwill gesture they would give me a CC for a couple of days so I could get to work and try and arrange my own transport. I got a 3-year-old Picanto that hadn't even been cleaned inside or out and stank of smoke, I had to take it as I need a car for work. I then called KIA 3 times to try and get a car, and eventually 4 days without a car I got one from Enterprise, a Peugeot 3008 petrol. Now I travel 70miles in total to my work, and the fuel consumption in this vehicle is truly awful, around 35-45 MPG. Back to the super chip. I have had 3 different dates for these chips to arrive at Arnold Clark and KIA, and yes they have all come and gone with no chip, I've even been told it's been lost twice in transit. I called KIA again and spoke to a guy called Micheal in customer services, and wow what a patronising guy he was. I was asking for a date of repair on my car and if I could possibly change the courtesy car, but he kept talking all over me with the same words that this wasn't KIA's fault and I was lucky to get a courtesy car as they are under no obligation to get me one, I must have heard this about six times from him whilst I was trying to explain that it also wasn't my fault.I eventually gave up as I could feel myself getting angry and don't like to lose it with people on the phone. Michael eventually said he would pass me through to KIA rental, I never got passed through and the line went dead. I called back the next day and was advised that if I wasn't happy I was to hand back the car to enterprise as KIA are under no obligation to provide me with one. I have given up at the moment as I'm at an impasse with this and hence the reason for joining this forum to see if anyone has ever had anything like this with KIA. Sorry for the long post but I'm at my wit's end with this. Now I fully understand the problem with getting the part, but KIA's attitude with dealing with this is awful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
IANAL but I would think that 'in law' your beef is with the garage., with whom you have a contract;

a) they undertook to do the update, you reasonably expect that they would do this in a professional manner in accordance with Kia's instructions​
b) their mechanic, for whatever treason, did not follow the instructions - which I'm sure would say make sure power is maintained during the update. That led, apparently, to a bricked unit​
c) the garage is obligated to get the spare part, though whatever means necessary​
d) the garage is 100% to blame so they must make every effort to minimise your loss through their incompetence.​
I would write, snail mail, to the garage pointing out the above and require them to supply a suitable courtesy car,. I'd advise them if they do not do so you will take action to obtain a courtesy car and will be recovering the costs through the Small Claims Court (or whatever it's called these days)

With cars becoming more and more electronically complex we will see more and more of this happening. Garage car parks will be full of perfectly good cars waiting for the delivery of a microchip and garage owners and manufacturers will be doing their damd'est to avoid providing courtesy transport while the owner waits.
That's the biggest issue I have. Now KIA has said that the software supplied was fine and it's the garage's fault? and Arnold Clark is saying if the software was fine why did it freeze, so KIA'S fault.
This could take a while to sort out. Thanks for the reply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi, guys. Thanks for all the replies and advice. I will go to the dealer direct tomorrow face to face and tell them I want this resolved today. I will ask them to take the part from another car, but I know Arnold Clark from past dealing and they will try and palm me off. Any advice on how I approach them and make a stance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Okay, got an update today from Arnold Clark's chief executive office. The guy explained to me that the software did indeed fail, and as a mechanic himself it was the first time he has ever seen this happen. They then confirmed that the pug was pulled as the software had and when they tried to restart but the car was dead. The mechanic then had to find out what was wrong, and it was the ECU unit that had fried. He then goes on to explain the problems about getting parts, and that it's looking at the end of July before they know when a part is available, by this time the car will be with them for 5 months. I asked about another car as they broke mine and my car was less than a year old when this happened. I was then told that wouldn't happen and I will have to take up any request for this with KIA. I contacted enterprise the other day to ask them to take back the Peugeot 3008 petrol as it was costing me a fortune in fuel going to work. They got back to me saying a Skoda Octavia was due back and to make my way up later that day. When I got to the branch the car they had for me was damaged so I couldn't have it, I'm not driving around in a Ford transit custom van. This is getting worse by the day. :mad:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
So Kia asked you to take your car in for a software update. It could have been for safety reasons, you weren’t to know why.
You take it in to the nearby Kia garage who have disabled your car so that you can’t use it for 4 months, and basically the only one at fault is you for following Kia’s advice.
Someone on this thread has been asked to do exactly what you have done.
Who on earth would do that after hearing your report? I certainly won’t, if they ask me.
Not unless I can get them to sign a detailed form, typed out by me, that explains their responsibility if things go wrong!
Apparently, the software was for the hybrid battery system. So in a nutshell it's all my fault for following KIA's advice. I have been told by an ex-KIA manager to ask for a new vehicle as mine wasn't even a year old when this happened. I won't hold my breath on that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
It looks like KIA has taken the blame for the bricked ECU unit. Arnold Clark told me today the part is getting supplied under the KIA warranty, so I take it they have concocted a story blaming KIA. I've been onto KIA on their Twitter account, but they have now started sending me DM instead of answering my messages online. There response to my question today.
Hi Graham

Regarding your tweets, Kia UK have taken responsibility for the repair under warranty. The module failed as a result of being updated.

The integrated system assembly is now on back order and on the highest priority order status. We're sorry it can't be shipped sooner, it's one of may parts with production severely impacted by the Slovakian supply chain issues

All we can now do is wait for the part and keep you mobile until your car is repaired.

Kind regards

Kia UK Limited
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I guess at least they are keeping you mobile.

I'm going there this morning if you want me to give your car a wave. Wish me luck. 😱
I had there service manager on the phone to me yesterday, and all he could do was moan about how the car is taking up space in his garage as they can't move it, and they haven't been paid for the service yet. 😱 Typical AC just thinking of themselves. Good luck. 🤞
They say that "all we can do is keep you mobile" - so hold them to their statement!
I do appreciate them keeping me mobile, but in a van lol. Anyway, they have been back onto me and I can expect a call from a senior manager who is now dealing with my case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
This is insane, they would be easier, and cheaper, just giving you a car off the lot like another Diesel Ceed and have you bring it back when the part is fitted to your own car.

On the back of that, it doesn't fill me with confidence to use AC in Springburn or Linwood - both of which are local to me also.
Talking about costs, I'm led to believe that the courtesy car/van is costing KIA over £900pw. It would be cheaper to give me another car as this is expected to go on for a minimum of 2 months, and it's already been 7 weeks. Oh, and AC offered me £16200 if I wanted to trade it in, most others are well over £18000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Well, my service went ok and got them to fix my fuel flap at same time as was never right. Seem to have done a good job of that
They really need to fix the entrance to their garage as is one massive pothole (springburn)
My only comment would be they could have used clean hands to stamp the service book as was all oil prints.
They did tell me maybe in next 6 months I should change the wiper blades......ok then.
All good then, glad to hear it. That's not a pothole, it's a blinking sinkhole, and hopefully, it consumes the whole site with my car in it. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Arnold Clarke, more like Arnold Shark. Although, are you comparing trade in with retail prices? Sometimes it is easier just to sell, move on.

When the time comes I'll take my car to Stirling to avoid A/C.
When I spoke to one of the apparently top men at AC he said would I be interested in selling the car and buying another from them, and they will sell my current car when fixed. I asked due to the inconvenience I've had are they going to help me out with a deal. Yes, he said that's why I mentioned it., so yes go ahead and see what you can do. When he called back the next day to offer me that low figure, I asked where the deal was? His answer was that this is a very competitive price but he couldn't match the other offers I have had. So that was a no thanks, and we move back to Kia now to see what's up next. I still maintain AC are at fault with this and pulling the wool over KIA's eyes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Good ol Arnie Shark. Aye, lowball offer. They need to get it a lot higher. When your car is fixed they will retail it at £20k plus as it is so new.

I hate hassle, so if the offer was acceptable, I would take it and push and push to get the car off my hands and just start afresh - presuming they could arrange a new car quicker than they can get the part in for this one. And that is a big presumption.

An acceptable buy back price is a good direction to push for so long as the price you get is suitable, and the replacement car they get you is imminent and they still provide you with a loaner until it arrives.

You've got a new car, it's off the road for 16 weeks like some old rust bucket restoration shed, because of something they did.
This is exactly why I want to speak to the KIA manager rather than sending messages all the time. I'm going to try and push them and AC to work together in building a package to buy the car back and I will wait for something to come into stock. The offer they gave me was derisory in my mind and they would have made about £3000 after the car was fixed. So I will post on Monday the outcome of talking to KIA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Okay guys another update. Just spoke on the phone to my case handler, and if I'm being honest I haven't really got anywhere. Strangely enough, one of the first questions he asked me was, what kind of valuation I was putting on my car? I'm presuming they have spoken to AC who offered me less than £18000 for my less than a one-year-old car. I told him that this wasn't acceptable and he said he would call AC, but stated that KIA could only go by the valuation from AC. I told him the figure they offered me wasn't the retail value of the car, and that the same car from AC is £22000. At this point he said I wouldn't get the retail value of the car, and I asked why not as AC and KIA broke my car and I'm due the full retail value. I told KIA I would not accept anything other than that. I have left it with him for now but did remind him this has so far cost KIA almost £1600 in rental costs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Hi Guys. KIA case handler just got back to me on a Twitter DM, can't even call me. They are now saying that between KIA and AC they cannot source me a different car before the date of the part arriving for my car, so in other words, we are not doing anything for you. In the meantime, the value of my car is going down and will be more than £1000 less by the time I get the car back. Anything else I can try?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Only thing I can think is push dealer to reject the car. Not sure if it would work. Might be a idea to contact

or if you have legal cover on home/car ins what your options are.

Have a check on Autotrader to see if there is anything like the car you have.

Don't know if this is like yours but it is from AC website
Thanks for the reply mate. I'm having a look around the AC website at the moment. The car you have linked to isn't quite the same as mine is a
2021 (21) Kia Ceed 1.6 CRDi 48V ISG GT-Line. I will take on board what you said about contacting CAB and will check my insurance.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 · (Edited)
Hi, Graham Arnold Clark now confirms the ETA of the part on the emergency order had updated to 16th May. Does that change your position? I feel this part could realistically be fitted before we and Arnold Clark are able to move you into a different car. Kind regards Nick Kia UK Limited. I received this message today from KIA. You'll note it's yet again an ETA, just like the last 3 dates.
I answered saying I can't trust ETA as I've had 3 previous ones and would prefer we spoke about what was discussed on the phone about changing the car. I asked them if I could see the report on the car, just out of interest, and I received this reply. Not sure what to make of it.

I would need to request Arnold Clark to send that to you as they're responsible for the quality of work and the technical findings on their site at that independent franchised business. Do you authorise me to share your email address with Arnold Clark? I'm sorry you remain unhappy with the lead time, I'll discuss your request for a different car with them but it's unlikely we can improve on any offer they can make given Kia are already committing to repair this under warranty and above our liabilities, are covering car hire costs until the car is repaired. Kind regards Nick Kia UK Limited
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Today's saga :D Got a call from KIA saying they would not take a rejection of the car as the car can be fixed at some point, I said when, and they said at some point as the part is on order and under warranty. I asked about trading the car in but was told that it would be at the trade-in price from AC but they would take into consideration the problems I've had, but no retail price and KIA won't help out as they are already paying for a rental car. So KIA and AC want me to go in and see them about selling and buying another car. So putting me into dept that I don't have or want. Does anyone know a good lawyer? :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 · (Edited)
Kia would have nothing to do with rejection of the car. As that is between A Clark & yourself. As they are the seller of the car. Although you do have to give them one chance to fix the car.

A/C are not doing themselves any favours here. They could easily take the car & get it repaired (their fault anyway) & let you have another car of the value of yours @ purchase price. As they could easily sell yours once repaired for the same amount.

If only these companies realised what good customer service was.
Yeah the KIA guy said that AC wouldn't reject the car, but I know they want to try and get it on the cheap and then sell it on. I'd rather it sat with them and wait for the repair if that's the case. I honestly thought KIA could have put a bit of pressure on them to do the right thing, but when I asked that I was told they are an independent dealer so nothing to do with KIA. I remember the days when the customer was king, but not anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #41 ·
You need a recommendation from within your own local community for a decent commercial lawyer.

An initial meeting should be FOC and that would provide an opportunity to assess whether you have a sound case.

I would earmark an amount to throw at this issue by agreement with the lawyer (say £500) to allow for all the preliminaries in taking you on board as a client and covering the first letter.

I would expect that the first letter would be putting the dealer on notice that you will be holding them responsible for your legal costs.

Or bite your lip, continue with the rented car which isn't costing you, and wait for the fix. At least that way AC are assisting in mitigating your losses.
I understand the lawyer situation mate, I was just being flippant. It's a hard one to judge as my car is sitting doing nothing and not clocking up my 80-mile daily commute. But saying that it's sitting depreciating in value as well. I'm due a call from AC today or tomorrow, so I will update then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Couple of things.

1. Your car is depreciating being sat in A/C waiting for a repair - but it would be depreciating on your driveway also.
2. As your car is not driveable - no miles are going on it - so it's depreciating less than it would be if it was functioning at using it. More miles = less value.

The issue isn't this.

It's the length of time for a suitable repair and your issue with the lack of a suitable replacement. They've given you a van, not an equivalent car. Had they given you a car, equivalent to yours this would be an non issue. The repair could take weeks, and you could put the weeks miles and wear and tear onto someone else's car, not your own (the one way the customer wins with this sort of repair).

Because of the delay - you've rightly pushed to reject the car and for a good buy back so you can start anew saving anguish and hassle. The "deal" they've offered you has been poor - so this isn't an option I would say.

My advice would be to push them to provide a more suitable vehicle whilst yours is off the road at this stage. I would cite the running costs of the van vs your car and could they not provide something more suitable or inline with what you bought.
Good advice mate. I was really just blowing off steam with the post above, I'm just getting a bit angry now with this situation. As to your point about the hire car. KIA keeps reminding me I'm not entitled to one and lucky to have the van. And now a new car salesman from AC has just called me to come in and chat about a new car deal. I told him I'm not buying a new car due to finances, so he then put's me onto a used car salesman. AC have very few KIA's in stock. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, but looking more likely I will have to wait for the part.
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top