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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm hoping someone can help me with where I go with this. I have had my KIA CEED for 6 months, it's a 2021 ex-demo with 7900 miles on the dash. I got an email from KIA about a software update to the Hybrid system and I was to book it into the main dealer. I had previously purchased a service plan for the car and as it was going in for the update I also booked the first service. I took the car to Arnold Clark Kia in Glasgow on 15/04/22 and was told it would be back with me later that day. I was called 5 hours later to be told there had been a problem with the update. It was then explained to me that the mechanic doing the work pulled the plug out of the car halfway through the update as it had frozen. This caused a couple of the super chips to blow on the car and they would have to order them, with no date of arrival. I then asked for a courtesy car as this was the garage's fault, but they refused and said it was KIA's software fault. I got in touch with KIA and guess what, they wouldn't give me a loan car either as they said it's not their policy to give out courtesy cars.I went back to Arnold Clark and they said as a goodwill gesture they would give me a CC for a couple of days so I could get to work and try and arrange my own transport. I got a 3-year-old Picanto that hadn't even been cleaned inside or out and stank of smoke, I had to take it as I need a car for work. I then called KIA 3 times to try and get a car, and eventually 4 days without a car I got one from Enterprise, a Peugeot 3008 petrol. Now I travel 70miles in total to my work, and the fuel consumption in this vehicle is truly awful, around 35-45 MPG. Back to the super chip. I have had 3 different dates for these chips to arrive at Arnold Clark and KIA, and yes they have all come and gone with no chip, I've even been told it's been lost twice in transit. I called KIA again and spoke to a guy called Micheal in customer services, and wow what a patronising guy he was. I was asking for a date of repair on my car and if I could possibly change the courtesy car, but he kept talking all over me with the same words that this wasn't KIA's fault and I was lucky to get a courtesy car as they are under no obligation to get me one, I must have heard this about six times from him whilst I was trying to explain that it also wasn't my fault.I eventually gave up as I could feel myself getting angry and don't like to lose it with people on the phone. Michael eventually said he would pass me through to KIA rental, I never got passed through and the line went dead. I called back the next day and was advised that if I wasn't happy I was to hand back the car to enterprise as KIA are under no obligation to provide me with one. I have given up at the moment as I'm at an impasse with this and hence the reason for joining this forum to see if anyone has ever had anything like this with KIA. Sorry for the long post but I'm at my wit's end with this. Now I fully understand the problem with getting the part, but KIA's attitude with dealing with this is awful.
 

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Jeez not great. I personally feel this should be Arnie who should supply a car as they broke it.
Is this the springburn or Linwood one?
I'm due in for a service soon to springburn.
 

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IANAL but I would think that 'in law' your beef is with the garage., with whom you have a contract;

a) they undertook to do the update, you reasonably expect that they would do this in a professional manner in accordance with Kia's instructions​
b) their mechanic, for whatever treason, did not follow the instructions - which I'm sure would say make sure power is maintained during the update. That led, apparently, to a bricked unit​
c) the garage is obligated to get the spare part, though whatever means necessary​
d) the garage is 100% to blame so they must make every effort to minimise your loss through their incompetence.​
I would write, snail mail, to the garage pointing out the above and require them to supply a suitable courtesy car,. I'd advise them if they do not do so you will take action to obtain a courtesy car and will be recovering the costs through the Small Claims Court (or whatever it's called these days)

With cars becoming more and more electronically complex we will see more and more of this happening. Garage car parks will be full of perfectly good cars waiting for the delivery of a microchip and garage owners and manufacturers will be doing their damd'est to avoid providing courtesy transport while the owner waits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
IANAL but I would think that 'in law' your beef is with the garage., with whom you have a contract;

a) they undertook to do the update, you reasonably expect that they would do this in a professional manner in accordance with Kia's instructions​
b) their mechanic, for whatever treason, did not follow the instructions - which I'm sure would say make sure power is maintained during the update. That led, apparently, to a bricked unit​
c) the garage is obligated to get the spare part, though whatever means necessary​
d) the garage is 100% to blame so they must make every effort to minimise your loss through their incompetence.​
I would write, snail mail, to the garage pointing out the above and require them to supply a suitable courtesy car,. I'd advise them if they do not do so you will take action to obtain a courtesy car and will be recovering the costs through the Small Claims Court (or whatever it's called these days)

With cars becoming more and more electronically complex we will see more and more of this happening. Garage car parks will be full of perfectly good cars waiting for the delivery of a microchip and garage owners and manufacturers will be doing their damd'est to avoid providing courtesy transport while the owner waits.
That's the biggest issue I have. Now KIA has said that the software supplied was fine and it's the garage's fault? and Arnold Clark is saying if the software was fine why did it freeze, so KIA'S fault.
This could take a while to sort out. Thanks for the reply.
 

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Classic AC incompetence which isn't a big surprise.

They will not be fitting individual chips to your car... It must be one of the Ecu's surely?

Id be pushing them very strongly to remove the required ecu from another car on their lot and give that to your car.
 

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That's the biggest issue I have. Now KIA has said that the software supplied was fine and it's the garage's fault? and Arnold Clark is saying if the software was fine why did it freeze, so KIA'S fault.
This could take a while to sort out. Thanks for the reply.

Hi Not a good start..
AC shot themselves in the foot with.
It was then explained to me that the mechanic doing the work pulled the plug out of the car halfway through the update as it had frozen.
So how did they know it had frozen & not just paused? Did they ring Kia tech to find out what to do? Bet not.

Quite simply their fault.

Sadly Kia are correct Warranty repairs are covered in the T/C that no replacement car is provided (other manufactures are the same) it's down to the dealer.
Same would go for deler errors.
Kia are not liable for any costs that may incur getting to a dealer, supplying a replacement car or as a result of being without the car during warranty repairs.
 

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That's the biggest issue I have. Now KIA has said that the software supplied was fine and it's the garage's fault? and Arnold Clark is saying if the software was fine why did it freeze, so KIA'S fault.
This could take a while to sort out. Thanks for the reply.
IANAL (again) but it's not your job to get involved in the argument between the garage and Kia, your position should simply be;

"You, Mr Garage, undertook to update the software, which you failed to do, bricking the unit in the process. It is up to you to recompense me and sort the matter out. I care not why or how the failures occurred, I'm not technical, I don't really acre how you fix it but I expect you to complete the work and return my car in a fully functioning state"

Whatever you do it would be very unwise to get involved in the argument (if there is one) between the garage and Kia - they will play you off between each other, stick to the people you have a contract with.
 

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Hi Not a good start..
AC shot themselves in the foot with.
.......
Quite simply their fault.

Sadly Kia are correct Warranty repairs are covered in the T/C that no replacement car is provided (other manufactures are the same) it's down to the dealer.
Same would go for deler errors.

I would argue that the same does not go for dealer errors.

If the warranty repair is conducted in a professional manner and takes 2 days then yes I agree no courtesy car is called for.

But in this case the garage did not complete the work either professionally or, apparently, in accordance with Kia instructions.

I see that as voiding the T&C's exclusion clause as the garage has been incompetent and should make recompense.

T&C's have to be reasonable - saying that whatever stuff up the garage makes does not require them to recompense the car owner is not reasonable - what if they dropped the car off the Lift when working on it? they can't hide behind T&C's for incompetence.
 
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@Radiorail.

Agree Op does not want to get involved between dealer & Kia. This is for dealer to sort out their mess. TBH. It's not like AC could not pick another car that for sale and lend to the OP.

This would appear to be dealer error. So any car etc is down to them not Kia.

T/C are Kia's. Not the garage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi, guys. Thanks for all the replies and advice. I will go to the dealer direct tomorrow face to face and tell them I want this resolved today. I will ask them to take the part from another car, but I know Arnold Clark from past dealing and they will try and palm me off. Any advice on how I approach them and make a stance.
 

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Hi, guys. Thanks for all the replies and advice. I will go to the dealer direct tomorrow face to face and tell them I want this resolved today. I will ask them to take the part from another car, but I know Arnold Clark from past dealing and they will try and palm me off. Any advice on how I approach them and make a stance.
I would not suggest how they solve the problem as that may get messy if your proposed solution does not work - just tell them you want your car fixed, somehow (they should be bright enough to work out solutions) or a loan car from their lot.
 
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Mine is in next week for the same software update for the hybrid system, and been quoted 2 hours to install, so I'm hoping I don't have the same issues. The dealers I am booked into were unable to sort my sat nav issue out a few months ago, which I ended up sorting myself with a software update..
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Okay, got an update today from Arnold Clark's chief executive office. The guy explained to me that the software did indeed fail, and as a mechanic himself it was the first time he has ever seen this happen. They then confirmed that the pug was pulled as the software had and when they tried to restart but the car was dead. The mechanic then had to find out what was wrong, and it was the ECU unit that had fried. He then goes on to explain the problems about getting parts, and that it's looking at the end of July before they know when a part is available, by this time the car will be with them for 5 months. I asked about another car as they broke mine and my car was less than a year old when this happened. I was then told that wouldn't happen and I will have to take up any request for this with KIA. I contacted enterprise the other day to ask them to take back the Peugeot 3008 petrol as it was costing me a fortune in fuel going to work. They got back to me saying a Skoda Octavia was due back and to make my way up later that day. When I got to the branch the car they had for me was damaged so I couldn't have it, I'm not driving around in a Ford transit custom van. This is getting worse by the day. :mad:
 

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So Kia asked you to take your car in for a software update. It could have been for safety reasons, you weren’t to know why.
You take it in to the nearby Kia garage who have disabled your car so that you can’t use it for 4 months, and basically the only one at fault is you for following Kia’s advice.
Someone on this thread has been asked to do exactly what you have done.
Who on earth would do that after hearing your report? I certainly won’t, if they ask me.
Not unless I can get them to sign a detailed form, typed out by me, that explains their responsibility if things go wrong!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
So Kia asked you to take your car in for a software update. It could have been for safety reasons, you weren’t to know why.
You take it in to the nearby Kia garage who have disabled your car so that you can’t use it for 4 months, and basically the only one at fault is you for following Kia’s advice.
Someone on this thread has been asked to do exactly what you have done.
Who on earth would do that after hearing your report? I certainly won’t, if they ask me.
Not unless I can get them to sign a detailed form, typed out by me, that explains their responsibility if things go wrong!
Apparently, the software was for the hybrid battery system. So in a nutshell it's all my fault for following KIA's advice. I have been told by an ex-KIA manager to ask for a new vehicle as mine wasn't even a year old when this happened. I won't hold my breath on that.
 

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This is insane, they would be easier, and cheaper, just giving you a car off the lot like another Diesel Ceed and have you bring it back when the part is fitted to your own car.

On the back of that, it doesn't fill me with confidence to use AC in Springburn or Linwood - both of which are local to me also.
 

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I think you need to escalate this to KCS here if you haven't already.

Arnold Clark here are not helping KIA UK's image for new owners. They have shrugged their shoulders and referred you to KIA for a solution to a problem that isn't their fault, or indeed yours. AC's cack-handed mechanic broke your car while it was in their care, they should be making amends. Unless I have missed something - I suppose you could blame KIA for not having the spares available, but that seems to be affecting all manufacturers.

With AC, you do appear to have unearthed a rich seam of purest sh*thousery... [allegedly]
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
It looks like KIA has taken the blame for the bricked ECU unit. Arnold Clark told me today the part is getting supplied under the KIA warranty, so I take it they have concocted a story blaming KIA. I've been onto KIA on their Twitter account, but they have now started sending me DM instead of answering my messages online. There response to my question today.
Hi Graham

Regarding your tweets, Kia UK have taken responsibility for the repair under warranty. The module failed as a result of being updated.

The integrated system assembly is now on back order and on the highest priority order status. We're sorry it can't be shipped sooner, it's one of may parts with production severely impacted by the Slovakian supply chain issues

All we can now do is wait for the part and keep you mobile until your car is repaired.

Kind regards

Kia UK Limited
 
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