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Got some led headlamp bulbs coming

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turnup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by WhiteSportage WhiteSportage wrote:

Atko - Thanks for that information
Learoy -  any problems with your lights? any error messages?
Pongee -  Looking forward to seeing your LEDs in action

I have got these in my Sportage at the moment and they are whiter than the Osram bulbs... and i think they are safe and a simple like for like replacement to originals...

Atko - what do you think of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-HB3-9005-Ultra-Power-Bright-5000k-Xenon-Gas-White-Car-Headlight-Headlamp-Bulbs/230974244276?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
 
I have these fitted in mine at the moment.  Good colour match and good beam pattern.  Still a bit wimpy for brightness but subjectively an improvement over the standard Sylvanias.  Cheap as chips too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote markhig2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Turnup Turnup wrote:

Originally posted by WhiteSportage WhiteSportage wrote:

Atko - Thanks for that information
Learoy -  any problems with your lights? any error messages?
Pongee -  Looking forward to seeing your LEDs in action

I have got these in my Sportage at the moment and they are whiter than the Osram bulbs... and i think they are safe and a simple like for like replacement to originals...

Atko - what do you think of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-HB3-9005-Ultra-Power-Bright-5000k-Xenon-Gas-White-Car-Headlight-Headlamp-Bulbs/230974244276?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 
I have these fitted in mine at the moment.  Good colour match and good beam pattern.  Still a bit wimpy for brightness but subjectively an improvement over the standard Sylvanias.  Cheap as chips too.


I have them too, they do an OK job!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turnup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 5:27pm
Still interested in the LEDs that Learoy has.  I know that they are of dubious legality, but only marginally and I strongly doubt that DPP would go to the trouble to prove non-compliance since this take a lot of specialised gear and time to perform.  I actually went to the trouble of writing to DfT on the matter and got a very waffly reply which suggests that the non-conformity (it there is one) is a complex technical matter.  Their closing sentence was something along the lines "You should fit lamps bearing the appropriate "E" mark as this assures compliance."   Note "should" and not "must" which have different legal meanings ("should" is advisory, "must" is mandatory), and also observe that the absence of assured compliance does not mean non-compliance.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AtKo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2017 at 7:34am
@Turnup: I quickly checked attached link at is stated that this are bulbs filled with Xenon gas. To light up Xenon lamp you need balast with high voltage, if you don't have it or if those bulbs don't need it, then it's not Xenon.

All new cars have proper BCM board computer module which measures input current (from bulbs,leds to BCM) and has some diagnostic thresholds. In case that LED fails no current is consumed or some low which falls below threshold value and turn off output channel and inform driver about failure.
Original lamp is designed in way to fit BCM requirements to consume enough current, so if you put some aftermarket LED with driver and replace current LED or let's say bulby you won't have proper diagnostic (bulbs consume a lot more current of LEDs). And if something fail in shortcut failure and without proper diagnostic control BCM channel won't turn output channel off and this follow in some fire...bum! But sure this is worst worst case which can happen.

Regarding legal requirements everything depends on optical system, if optical system is badly designed you can have 20.000lumens from LEDs (which sure this kind of LED doesn't exist, only if you put 40pcs with ~8W each and have whole car as heatsink to cool this down) you won't be legal. 
Current trend is around 1.000 lumens per highbeam, low beam, direction indicator and DRL.
Evertything depends on optical system, if it is lightguide or reflector etc.
Just think about, bulb glow in 360degree directions, LED only 120degree. You can't reach same light pattern with proper values on the road as bulbs.

Sure it everything looks great, you see enough light on road and police won't bother you. Just check that you don't blind opposite / oncoming drivers :)

Sorry for too much theory :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turnup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2017 at 8:44pm
AtKo
 
These bulbs are halogen filament lamps but they run at a slightly higher temperature - this gives more lumens per watt and a higher colour temperature.  The reference to Xenon is not a reference to HID bulbs which use ionised Xenon to create the light.  The Xenon in these bulbs surrounds the filament (at a low pressure) and provides slightly less heat loss from the filament - helping it to run brighter. 
 
Your comments regarding current consumption of LEDS are correct but many aftermarket LED bulbs also incorporate a ballast resistor which draws additional current, enough to satisfy the system that the bulb is working.
 
Your calculation regarding 40 x 8W (=320W) is not consistent with the latest LED technology.  It would take approximately 200W of latest technology LEDs to deliver 20000 lumens, that's 100W per bulb,  This is entirely simple to dissipate - my old car had (as standard from factory) one 60W and one 80 W halogen in each lamp and on main beam BOTH were on.  Nothing melted.  I have absolutely no interest in 20,000 lumens - as far as I have been able to establish, for the UK (and probably all EU) there is a limit of 2,000 lumens per lamp before it is required to fit washers and self levelling, and an absolute upper limit of 3000 lumens per lamp.
 
Yes I am aware that many aftermarket LED bulbs offer a poor pattern, but it is entirely possible to design a layout of LED chips which closely resembles the emission pattern of a filament, sufficient at least to provide an acceptable beam pattern.  I think that maybe Chikto has found one such device.  I have looked at the pix provided by Learoy and they seem pretty good. One example alone is not enough to convince me so I am waiting for the other two members on here to get theirs fitted and take some more pix.
 
The issue with the Sportage headlamps is that they use a SINGLE 55W halogen to provide both High and Low beam and I would estimate that they deliver about 800 - 900 lumen.  Previous cars I have owned have separate bulbs for High and Low beam and BOTH are on for High beam.  The other issue is that by comparison to the LED DRLs, the light is yellow looking and it does not look good to have them side by side.


Edited by Turnup - 14 Sep 2017 at 8:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AtKo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2017 at 7:30am
I commented that bulbs are filled with Xenon gas as is written in link which you attached.

I'm electronic engineer in automotive lighting (designing electronic for VW, Audi, JLR, Porsche...) and this is not quite true. Sure with "resistor" you just increase current to go over diagnostic threshold, but won't always 100% work on all platforms in case of any LED failure. Some OEMs has so high requirements that simply electronic can not be universal.

Regarding watts it is correct, if you drive latest good LED from XX supplier  with max current to achieve so lumens you will have around 8W thermal power dissipation (more electrical power!). And if you have 40LEDs...it's just multiplied. For example we designed for XX car electronic with 8 LEDs each has around 0,6W and big heatsink to cool this down and not to exceed limits (125°C on PCB) at high ambient temperature and considering heat from engine. In my long years working with this I have just this year project where a lot of LEDs (less than 40) were used on BIG PCB but with active cooling etc.
Also we can not compare power and heat on buls vs LEDs. Electronic component will reduce lifetime or even destroyed, desoldered if temperature will be above 125°C (or above junction temp. 150°C)

We also performed for fun optical measurement under "offical homologation" requirements, comparing H4 bulb and "H4 LED", it was dissaster :) I will try to find a report.

But to be honest I also have some "xenon" look H7 halogen bulbs and some LED in my old "tuning" car. But that is due to look and not functionality. In rainy day I better stay at home hehe

Yes I also don't like cold white and warm white ("yellowish") light source near each other. It looks ugly! :)

Please don't use this ase any arguing, I just share my daily experience and we are just discussing. Some people on forums are quick to get angry :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cumbria Kiaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2017 at 7:44am
Has anybody seen these, not cheap but apparently fully "E" marked and fully legal inthe UK and Europe.     http://www.kudauk.ltd.uk/shop/led-lights-and-spotlights/led-headlight-conversion-kits. I am think of ordering some for my 2017 KX2, any thoughts?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turnup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2017 at 11:45am
Originally posted by AtKo AtKo wrote:

I commented that bulbs are filled with Xenon gas as is written in link which you attached.

I'm electronic engineer in automotive lighting (designing electronic for VW, Audi, JLR, Porsche...) and this is not quite true. Sure with "resistor" you just increase current to go over diagnostic threshold, but won't always 100% work on all platforms in case of any LED failure. Some OEMs has so high requirements that simply electronic can not be universal.

Regarding watts it is correct, if you drive latest good LED from XX supplier  with max current to achieve so lumens you will have around 8W thermal power dissipation (more electrical power!). And if you have 40LEDs...it's just multiplied. For example we designed for XX car electronic with 8 LEDs each has around 0,6W and big heatsink to cool this down and not to exceed limits (125°C on PCB) at high ambient temperature and considering heat from engine. In my long years working with this I have just this year project where a lot of LEDs (less than 40) were used on BIG PCB but with active cooling etc.
Also we can not compare power and heat on buls vs LEDs. Electronic component will reduce lifetime or even destroyed, desoldered if temperature will be above 125°C (or above junction temp. 150°C)

We also performed for fun optical measurement under "offical homologation" requirements, comparing H4 bulb and "H4 LED", it was dissaster :) I will try to find a report.

But to be honest I also have some "xenon" look H7 halogen bulbs and some LED in my old "tuning" car. But that is due to look and not functionality. In rainy day I better stay at home hehe

Yes I also don't like cold white and warm white ("yellowish") light source near each other. It looks ugly! :)

Please don't use this ase any arguing, I just share my daily experience and we are just discussing. Some people on forums are quick to get angry :)
 
Not arguing and not getting angry - interesting exchange of views.  My writing style can be a bit blunt at times and this can be interpreted as angry.  You would be sure to know if I were angry Smile
 
Agree that halogen filament bulbs will tolerate a much higher temperature than LEDs.  This is why many LED assemblies have fan cooling, even for lower power dissipation than the equivalent brightness halogen.
 
Correct operation of BCM:  To be blunt, I do no need a light on my dash to inform me that a headlamp bulb has failed (other lamps maybe but headlamps are pretty obvious) so a simple ballast to satisfy the current threshold is fine for me.  As for fault protection, even BCMs can go wrong, this is why there is a fuse in the supply and the wiring must be rated to handle the current needed to disrupt the fuse, so not very excited about that.
 
Homologation testing will only give results for the particular LED items tested and cannot be generalised to embrace all LEDs.  The report would be interesting but not directly helpful as my Sporty uses HB3 lamps not H4.  I am sure there are better and worse ones out there (and a lot of Chinese rubbish with ridiculous claims for performance), but this area of technology seems to be evolving very quickly so the door is not closed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turnup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2017 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by Cumbria Kiaman Cumbria Kiaman wrote:

Has anybody seen these, not cheap but apparently fully "E" marked and fully legal inthe UK and Europe.     http://www.kudauk.ltd.uk/shop/led-lights-and-spotlights/led-headlight-conversion-kits. I am think of ordering some for my 2017 KX2, any thoughts?

 
Their claims regarding power consumption and brightness are reasonable so they pass that test.  Much of the Chinese stuff has technical specifications which simply do not make sense - they just make it up.
 
WRT E marking - difficult to tell from the ad but be advised that the presence of an E mark does not mean they are compliant when fitted to your car.  Several points here, not specifically addressed at this product, more general comments based upon my own research:
 
1)  The Chinese will happily stamp whatever marks they want without any testing.
 
2) The marking has to be the appropriate marking for the headlamp type.  I think that for projector style lamps as in the Sporty it is E1.  I have seen products on offer with E markings inappropriate for the type of connector - and the type of connector is specific to a particular bulb and reflector geometry.
 
3) I have also seen products where the driver module (or ballast or whatever they call it) has an E marking but the bulb itself does not.  This means that the driver may be fully approved but the bulb itself is not.
 
That said, the design looks to be of a type which potentially would give a reasonable beam pattern, the claimed power and lumen ratings are reasonable and would not require self-levelling and headlamp washers.  The colour temperature is a little high (I think there is an absolute limit of 5700K - I might be wrong on this) but this is not something that can be tested outside of a laboratory - Plod and your MoT station  do not have calibrated eyes.
 
Without any feedback from a credible user it is a leap in the dark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MerlinL14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2017 at 6:23pm
My LED bulbs still haven't turned up so I can't do any comparisons until they do. Posted 7-9-17 apparently.
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